Snap or not (since we have nothing better to do)

[Ed Miller]

Bob Kane wrote :
> The tricky part is the plane is definitely defining a
> cone shape during the rotation. <snip>
> How do you catch this in the fraction of a second it
> takes to do the maneuver?
Exactly, I believe even those of us with better than average vision cannot 
100% of the time pick up a true snap or discern it from a fast barrel roll 
on center maneuvers. How anyone is accurately judging end box snaps is a 
miracle in my book. Since we are an aging breed ( pattern pilots/judges ) 
and thus need a bit longer to process information hundreds of feet away from 
us, it seems to me we are judging entry, exit and doing impression judging 
of what happens in between ( well it looked like a snap....maybe ?? ). 
Figure skating has the same problem with it's various rotation jumps, Dick 
Button can tell you if the entry and exit are nailed but I've never heard 
him pick apart the rotation in between other than how many rotations there 
were. The judges are much closer to the performer and looking at a much 
larger object in figure skating than we are. We need to get back to 
maneuvers with many elements in a single maneuver that span some time and 
space. Some of today's FAI schedule is big flowing maneuvers that stress 
geometry. Those are much more easily judged and that's the key. No amount of 
words in a rule book put to a maneuver to define it are going to be enough 
if we can't see and process that maneuver predictably 100% of the time. Ever 
see a perfectly executed 2 rolls in opposite directions ?? Time and space, 
easy to pick up the flaws in that one and it doesn't need a short novel in 
the rule book to define.
Ed M.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Kane" <getterflash at yahoo.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Snap or not (since we have nothing better to do)


> First, let me say I do not have the correct answer,
> I'm posting this so we can all study an example.
>
> Here is the definition from the competition guidelines
> . . .
>
> "The track visualized as the path of the Center of
> Gravity (CG) should ideally follow the geometric
> flight path of the maneuver while the nose and tail
> autorotate through opposite helical arcs around the
> flight path. A snap that does not show a break and
> stall to initiate the snap, but does enter a stalled
> attitude during the maneuver is severely downgraded.
>
> 2. If the stall does not occur and the model
> barrel-rolls around, the maneuver is zeroed. A barrel
> roll can be identified when the CG, the nose and tail
> scribe the same helical path through the required
> rotation of the maneuver."
>
> I see a pitch break (nose pulls up), and the plane
> finishes the rotation nose high with the tail coming
> up slightly after the rotation stops.
>
> The tricky part is the plane is definitely defining a
> cone shape during the rotation. But the nose, CG, and
> tail are on the same arc, not opposite arcs as
> described above. The point of the cone is several feet
> in front of the plane.
>
> How do you catch this in the fraction of a second it
> takes to do the maneuver?
>
> I will try and catch a correct snap (if such a thing
> exists) on video and post when I can.
>
>
> --- Ed  Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Looks like a real tight and fast barrel roll.  Can't
>> discern any pitch break
>> leading to autorotation.  Must have had some rudder
>> in it, you can see an
>> opposite kick at the end to get back on track.
>> Ed
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bob Kane" <getterflash at yahoo.com>
>> To: "nsrca" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 11:45 PM
>> Subject: Snap or not (since we have nothing better
>> to do)
>>
>>
>> >I have a short wmv video taken during the NATS of a
>> > snap during the Master's Reverse Avalanch. The wmv
>> > file is posted here:
>> >
>> > http://home.wyan.org/~rkane/video.html
>> >
>> > Is it a snap or not? You can control the playback
>> > speed in Windows Media player for a better look by
>> > turning on the play speed controls under "View",
>> then
>> > "Enhancements", then turning "Play Speed Settings"
>> on.
>> > This will give you frame-by-frame control. Watch
>> it
>> > both at full speed and then frame by frame.
>> >
>> >
>> > Bob Kane
>> > getterflash at yahoo.com
>> >
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>
>
> Bob Kane
> getterflash at yahoo.com
>
>
>
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