Be A Good Judge//was:RE: Defensive judging to avoid retaliati on.

[PENNISI Peter]

A big problem I see in judging at especially local comps is we are expecting
too much from the people who sit in the chairs. The schedules are much more
complex than they use to be and there isn't much time between manoeuvres to
think. 
 
I see this a lot in Aus were I fly F3A and a majority of the people sitting
in the chairs just don't have enough experience. Most of the guys don't even
know the manoeuvres because the F3A schedules have become so demanding and
technically complicated. I am not blaming judges but it has become a very
difficult task these days to do a good job. I even struggle trying to judge
the lower classes and I have quite a bit of experience. 
 
I don't have any answers but it has become a 2 edge sword. People are
getting turned off pattern because judging may appear to be not up to
scratch. And the schedules are such that a part time judge / flyer finds it
very difficult to apply a consistent and unbiased scores to all contestants
over the course of a weekend because the demands are too high.
 
I can only speak from what I have seen at our local comps were judging
particularly in the higher classes is based more on impression rather than
precision.
 
Peter
 
 
 
 

  _____  

From: Rcmaster199 at aol.com [mailto:Rcmaster199 at aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 21 May 2004 11:01 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Be A Good Judge//was:RE: Defensive judging to avoid retaliation.


Contestant judging has flaws, no doubt about that. But I can't agree that
returning to the old days where, in local events, people with very little
knowledge about pattern and its many intricacies, were judging guys with
many many years experience in pattern. That was not my idea of fairness in
judging. 

Not all Contestant judges "get it", but many, maybe even most, do. It is a
better system than what we had, at the local level at least. And many of us
are continuing to help bring the word out to all. 

At the 2002 Nats I recall an F3A'er who apparently just did not want to
judge us in Masters, so his scores were consistently 20-30% lower than the
others. We all knew who he was however, when it was his time to fly F3A, at
least on the panels I judged with other fellow Masters pilots, he was judged
fairly with no bias towards retaliation that I saw. 

Yes we do have some, that for whatever reason, will not do their jobs
correctly, at local events or nationals alike. But let's not forget the many
that accept the responsibility with pride, and do a great job in choosing
those that won and those that didn't, without fear of retaliation. My hat
off to all who judge fairly. My suggestion and hope for the future is "Be A
Good Judge" no matter what. The sport of pattern truly depends on it.

Matt Kebabjian



Subj:Re: Defensive judging to avoid retaliation. Are you guilty?  
Date:5/20/2004 12:19:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:johnferrell at earthlink.net <mailto:johnferrell at earthlink.net> 
Reply-to:discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org> 
To:discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org> 
Sent from the Internet 



I have never been so hungry that I needed a customer like that. Anyone who
believes ANYTHING that customer has to say is also suspect, they are buying
into lying. 

Everyone of those type of individuals we encourage to remain in the sport
costs us at least 10 other potential contestants. 

The worst thing you can do to your buddy in this game is to hide bad news
from him. Eventually he will have to face honest judges and he will be hurt.
Although it is not recommended practice, it is good for judges to compare
scores on a given flight occasionally. Just to see how well you are
tracking. I felt compelled to do this last weekend because I felt my good
friend and practice buddy was getting some awfully good scores from me. I
trust Bill Mitchell's judging so I asked that the three of us compare the
scores at the end of the flight. We were all pleased to see that Bill was
just flying good, my friendship had not tainted the results!

If a guy cannot face the facts (contestant or judge) he needs to find
something else to do!

John Ferrell    
http://DixieNC.US <http://dixienc.us/> 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Del Rykert <mailto:drykert at localnet.com>  
To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>  
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Defensive judging to avoid retaliation. Are you guilty? 


Using contestants as judges has many ugly sides. I remember when some
prominent fliers would register late for NATS to get out of judging. I
remember being told by a prominent flier he didn't need to attend the
judging seminar at the NATS as he preferred to go out and practice being it
was elective. Crying shame we have to legislate answers to many issues that
the ugly side of people present. Bottom line in my mind is honor and
character sure doesn't mean what it once did. 
    Is inexcusable for anyone to retaliate while judging. What do we do
though. Ban them from competing? It is unfair for Tony and anyone in that
position to have that dilemma. 
                         del 
               NSRCA - 473







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