rules proposals final result

Tue May 11 03:27:59 AKDT 2004

Vote it down. He would have to have one hell of case to convince me 
otherwise. In this case, not.

>From: patterndude at comcast.net
>Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
>To: discussion at nsrca.org
>Subject: Re: rules proposals final result
>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:27:11 +0000
>
>Joe,
>and what would you do as a board member if your board chairman used his 
>bully pulpit to submit a proposal at odds with the NSRCA?
>--Lance
>
>--
>District 6 AVP
>www.aeroslave.com
> > Lance/Tony
> >
> > The results of the survey were published in the K-Factor, on the NSRCA
> > website, forwarded to the NSRCA Board, and forwarded to John Fuqua, 
>Contest
> > Board Chairman.  In one way or the order the contest board had access to 
>the
> > results.
> >
> > A number of the board members are NSRCA members. The should have seen 
>the
> > results in the K-Factor. Also, John Fuqua could have forwarded the 
>results
> > to the board members. Whether he did or didn't is another story. I've 
>got to
> > believe based on these facts that the board members had to have known  
>how
> > the membership felt on all these issues.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Tony Stillman" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
> > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > >Subject: Re: rules proposals final result
> > >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:01:14 -0500
> > >
> > >Lance:
> > >On issue with the survey is that the survey results are not sent to the
> > >contest board.  We use them to formulate rules proposals, and those are
> > >sent
> > >to the board.
> > >
>
> > >Perhaps we are missing something here and should create a survey in 
>such a
> > >form that the Contest Board could read it and get a good "feel" for 
>what
> > >the
> > >pattern community is thinking....  This would then help them to better
> > >prepare to vote with the interests of the pattern community at heart.
> > >
> > >
> > >Tony Stillman
> > >Radio South
> > >3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > >Pensacola, FL 32505
> > >1-800-962-7802
> > >www.radiosouthrc.com
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> > >To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:50 PM
> > >Subject: Re: rules proposals final result
> > >
> > >
> > > > Tony,
> > > > No, I don't think you understand my position.  In re-reading my 
>note, I
> > > > might not have been totally clear.  Here is a quote, " The NSRCA 
>survey
> > >is
> > > > designed to collect the opinions of the membership and we tend to 
>view
> > >it
> > >as
> > > > a democratic process."  I think the NSRCA survey provided needed
> > >opinions
>
> > > > and most all of these were turned into proposals to be submitted to 
>the
> > >next
> > > > level up: the contest board.
> > > >    What get me is that we are not working together as a team to make 
>the
> > > > best of the AMA processes and do right for the NSRCA.  I don't know 
>you
> > > > well, but I don't see you as subversive in the least.  I don't 
>believe
> > >that
> > > > you would end run an NSRCA survey and submit your own proposal when 
>the
> > > > popular vote disagreed with your personal opinion.
> > > > --Lance
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tony Stillman" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
> > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:22 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: rules proposals final result
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Lance:
> > > > > While I understand your position, I also understand that NSRCA 
>does
> > >not
> > > > > dictate rules to AMA for Pattern.  Maybe they should, but they 
>don't.
> > > > > Because of that, ANY open AMA member can AND SHOULD submit rules
> > >proposals
> > > > > as they see fit.
> > > > >
>
> > > > > It is then important that quality people be appointed by the AMA 
>VP to
> > > > serve
> > > > > as contest board members.
> > > > >
> > > > > They then get to vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > There have been several times that I didn't agree with an NSRCA
> > >proposal,
> > > > > but because I was the NSRCA President, I didn't submit an optional
> > > > proposal.
> > > > > However, if I was not an officer and felt like a rule needed to be
> > >made,
> > >I
> > > > > should be free to submit any rules proposal that I want.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tony Stillman
> > > > > Radio South
> > > > > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > > > > Pensacola, FL 32505
> > > > > 1-800-962-7802
> > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <patterndude at comcast.net>
> > > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:25 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: rules proposals final result
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > John,
> > > > > > The interesting thing is that the RCA05-05 TO/L rule change was
> > > > submitted
>
> > > > > by an NSRCA member that had full knowledge of the NSRCA survey
> > >results.
> > > > The
> > > > > NSRCA survey is designed to collect the opinions of the membership 
>and
> > >we
> > > > > tend to view it as a democratic process. But given the 
>hierarchical
> > > > > reporting of the SIG to the AMA, someone not falling in step with 
>the
> > > > survey
> > > > > results cna submit a proposal which gets the same consideration 
>and
> > > > > visibility as change proposals submitted by this SIG as a result 
>of
> > >the
> > > > > survey.
> > > > > >    If this doesn't change, then it is doubly important that 
>there is
> > >an
> > > > > active communication channel from the NSRCA to the contest board
> > >members.
> > > > I
> > > > > applaud Don Atwood for thinking, reflecting, soliciting input and
> > >voting.
> > > > I
> > > > > wish I knew how the others prepared for their vote.  I fear that 
>they
> > >may
> > > > > just assume that if the proposal came from an NSRCA member, then 
>it
> > > > reflects
> > > > > the will of the SIG.
> > > > > > --Lance
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
>
> > > > > > District 6 AVP
> > > > > > www.aeroslave.com
> > > > > > > It would be very interesting to hear the reasoning behind the
> > >votes.
> > > > > > > Is it:
> > > > > > >  apathy?
> > > > > > >  ignorance?
> > > > > > >  some logical reasoning?
> > > > > > >  an effort to restrict interest & growth?
> > > > > > >  some personal vendetta?
> > > > > > >  a perceived threat to AMA or some element thereof?
> > > > > > >  jealousy?
> > > > > > >  or maybe even a just a need to show who is really the 
>boss....
> > > > > > >  All of the above?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Considering how helpful and considerate some of the Muncie 
>folks
> > >are,
> > > > I
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > the apparent hostility to the Pattern discipline is not 
>unanimous.
> > > > > > > Perhaps the intended message is that the NSRCA exists to serve 
>the
> > >AMA
> > > > > > > rather than the membership. The only viable relationship is 
>for
> > >the
> > > > > NSRCA to
> > > > > > > be positioned to serve both.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps the time has come for two sets of rules... Nats 
>Rules(AMA)
> > >and
>
> > > > > NSRCA
> > > > > > > Rules. The NSRCA rules would reflect the needs of the 
>membership.
> > >The
> > > > > > > management of the governing body (AMA) has abandoned the
> > > > responsibility
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > leadership.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We can allow the current rulings to weaken us or we can use 
>the
> > > > > adversarial
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > position to strengthen us. If we allow the rulings to divide 
>us,
> > >we
> > > > are
> > > > > sure
> > > > > > > to lose whatever clout we have now. If we hang together, we 
>can
> > >make
> > > > > this a
> > > > > > > battle they will regret winning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John Ferrell
> > > > > > > http://DixieNC.US
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
> > > > > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > > > > Cc: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua at gdsys.net>
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:41 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: rules proposals final result
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > On May 6, 2004, at 9:26 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was decided BEFORE this vote.  It was NOT on the 
>ballot
> > > > (Since
> > > > > > > > > I'm new to the process I can't answer why...I just know I
> > >didn't
> > > > get
> > > > > > > > > to vote on it (I surely would have said just...I've wanted 
>it
> > >for
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > long time)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I submitted the initial proposal, which included an annex of
> > > > maneuver
> > > > > > > > descriptions and maneuver schedules, controlled by the 
>NSRCA.
> > >Steve
> > > > > > > > Kaluf sent it to the AMA Executive Council, recommending 
>that
> > >they
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > refuse to accept it, so they did.  I was so PO'd that I 
>washed
> > >my
> > > > > hands
> > > > > > > > of it.  John Fuqua and Tony Stillman took the proposal and
> > >rewrote
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > > giving the R/C Aerobatics contest board final approval of
> > >anything
> > > > > > > > NSRCA came up with (we can't be trusted to write maneuver
> > > > descriptions
>
> > > > > > > > and schedules without parental supervision).  The vote on 
>that
> > > > > proposal
> > > > > > > > failed because some of the contest board members FAILED TO 
>VOTE.
> > > > > > > > That's why we are where we are.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ron Van Putte
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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