Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries

[Mike Hester]

If you simply remove it and keep an eye on it while charging, you'll probably have no problems. Awareness is the whole issue, unlike what some other people seem to think. 

Sorry, but I think I'm fresh out of restraint.

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Keith Black 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:20 PM
  Subject: Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries


  Ed,

  In my current Aries I run two NiMH battery packs, the new Li-Ion packs were "going" to go into my new plane.

  Here's my current setup: One five cell double A 1680 mah NiMH pack (5.2 oz.) on a 5.7 volt regulator, and one five cell triple A 400 mah NiMH pack (about 2.5 oz) on a 5.4 volt regulator. Power is always pulled from the 1680 mah pack unless it drops below 5.4 volts. Therefore, the 400 mah battery only kicks in if needed (due to a failure or dead primary pack).  

  I can fly until I'm tired on the fully charged 1680 mah pack, I'm guessing safely 6 or more 20 minute flights.

  I derive a level of comfort from having the redundant battery setup after hearing all the horror stories and seeing Lance's beautiful Aries #2 go in due to lost receiver power.

  With my current setup I'm carrying around almost eight ounces of battery weight, which is why the Li-Ions looked good to me. I could drop 1.8 oz by going to the Li-Ion batteries AND increase flying time (though flying time isn't an issue).

  However, given the issues with Li-Ion packs I feel that I should either A) stick with my NiMH batteries or, B) install the Li-Ion in a location that it can be removed for each charge.

  Keith Black

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ed Deaver 
    To: discussion at nsrca.org 
    Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:34 PM
    Subject: Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries


    OK, Ive had Duralite and subsequently Powerflites for about 5 years now.  Because of the fire hazard, everyone is recommending going back to reg batteries or NMhd(which my charges probably won't support)

    So for 3 digital, 1 4721 and a mini throttle servo, how many mah should I look at buying in old style batteries?  I would only go with 5 cell pack.

    Thanx

    ed

    Keith Black <tkeithb at comcast.net> wrote:
      Thanks for your reply Jim. 

      I do like design of the NMP charger and the way it shows how much current is being feed to the battery. This is clearly an excellent design feature. 

      What I gather from your response is it is "possible" for a cell to be charged beyond the safe limit if another cell is either out of balance or defective. Also, I understand your point that one may be able to spot a bad cell after becoming familiar with the charger. 

      As it relates to the cells being unbalanced, will lithium batteries equalized each other via a "trickle" as is the case with NiCad batteries?

      Jim, I really appreciate your always candid responses and willingness to assist others on the list.

      Thanks,
      Keith
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: JOddino 
        To: discussion at nsrca.org 
        Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:30 AM
        Subject: Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries


        Hi Kieth,
        I believe the NMP solves most of the problems we have all read about.  1) it is the right type of charger for Li-Ions and is dedicated to that chemistry by limiting the current and the voltage. 2) it is set for two-cell packs and that cannot be changed by the operator or on its own. 3) it limits the current to less than the 1C rate (for 2000 mAh packs).
        Probably its best feature vs. the other chargers is the meter that tells the operator what is going on.  After you use it a few times you will be able to predict the current at the beginning and during the charge cycle depending on how many flights you had.  If something is wrong, like a cell way out of wack, it will give you an indication.  Of course it tells you when the pack is charged and if for some reason it was taking too long you would figure it out.  In other words you will learn what is normal proper charge current vs. time and could spot an unbalanced pack.  It cannot assure you a cell will not be overcharged if the cells are not matched but I believe you would spot it.
        I've been using it for over a year and always charge the packs in the plane.  The total charge time is relatively short so you can monitor it, but I have left them plugged in over night.  
        I have only seen one pack (a Duralite which was in a plane I bought) with a slight unbalance.  It was a 2S2P configuration and I don't have much experience with that configuration.  I have never seen a simple 2 cells in series pack unbalanced.
        Where you really need to worry about this is in long strings like those used in electric flight.  I talked to Fred Marks (FMA) about bringing out each node so each cell could be checked and charged individually if required.  He said they plan to do that in the future.
        In the mean time, I believe one could stick a pin through the heat shrink to check the cell balance.  I'll try that today and get back to the list.
        Regards, Jim
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