My Head is Spinning! (Long)

[Rcmaster199 at aol.com]

Nik, my experience pretty much echoes Dave's. In fact, a couple years ago at 
Tony's contest, the 4C owners lost no less than a dozen and half rounds 
of competitive flying due to 4C problems of all sorts, including dying at 
idle. And there were no 2C problems at all all weekend, eventhough half the 
planes there were 2C powered.

The point is that 2C and 4C all have their idiosyncracies and will stop 
working at many inopportune places and times.
 No powerplant is immune to this, even electrics when the Bats go south

Matt K

> Subj:Re: My Head is Spinning! (Long) 
> Date:1/10/2004 11:46:20 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:DaveL322 at comcast.net
> Reply-to:discussion at nsrca.org
> To:discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> Nik,
>  
> From your time in the US, I remember calling a flight or two for you, and I 
> also recall your 4C ran very nicely and that you were knowledgeable, 
> comfortable, and confident with your equipment/setup.  I suspect a 2C would also 
> perform well for you (allowing for a learning curve as with any new engine).  For 
> now, if a 4C idles better for you, it may the best engine for you.  If the 
> only engines I'd ever seen quit at idle were 2Cs, I might share your opinion 
> on this topic.
>  
> Over the past 5 years of running pattern 2Cs (approx 4,000 flights), 
> depending on the weather conditions, prop, plane, etc - I've been running the idle 
> on my pattern 2Cs at launch at somewhere between 1,500 and 1,800 RPM - most 
> will idle slower if I care, but the lower idle just beats up the airframe 
> (still nothing near as bad as the 4C idle tho), so I don't bother.  Outside of 
> deliberate testing (to learn, understand, define operating parameters), I rarely 
> have deadsticks (save when I run out of fuel, which is often enough <G>).  
> If my engine quits at idle, 90% of the time it is the plug - and I've been 
> known to get complacement with changing the plug as it generally lasts for 
> 200-300 flights.  A couple times the problem was that I had the idle "kill" switch 
> active.  A couple times it was throttle servo showing wear on the pot (after 
> many, many flights, think 500+).  Plugs, kill switches, and servo pots are 
> all easy preventive maintenance and equally affect 2C or 4Cs (tho they affect 
> those with "old timers" disease and CRS with a vengeance).
>  
> Without having been at the EC or WC or knowing any of the particulars of the 
> dead sticks or the pilots that had the deadsticks, it is quite difficult for 
> me to comment.  I doubt any of the pilots that had the deadsticks 
> anticipated or expected any deadsticks - or routinely experienced deadsticks prior to 
> the Worlds - I would think that the majority of the pilots at the Worlds would 
> have reliable equipment - especially the "peak" competitors.
>  
> I reguarly attend the US Nats and have seen plenty of 4Cs die in the air 
> (2Cs as well).  The year the DZ was introduced, several did not make it into the 
> air at all (bit of a learning curve initially with that engine, as with many 
> engines, and it seemed pretty indiscriminate of "peak" or novice flyer).  
> This year at the US Nats F3A Finals and US Team Trials, a couple 4Cs were 
> having problems (some 2Cs as well, one was mine and completely my own fault - a 
> rather untimely brain "fade" <G>).  Your statement that "a deadstick after say, 
> a long downline, is ALWAYs a 2C" is not at all consistent with what I have 
> seen at local and national contests in the US (from "peak" flyers through 
> novice flyers).
>  
> The first 3 US Nationals I attended I had no plan or hope of placing near 
> the top of my class - but I did participate in those contests equally with 
> those in attendance who were "peak" flyers and did have aspirations of winning 
> the class.  Point being, just because I flew at the US Nationals did not mean I 
> was a "peak" flyer - but I was equal to the "peak" flyers in many respects 
> and competed at the Nationals just as the "peak" flyers (in a sense, by 
> definition, not all the competitors at a competion can be "peak" competitors).
>  
> Again, if I'd only ever seen 2Cs die at idle in the air, I might share your 
> opinion.  As it is, enjoy the consistent idle of your (4C) engine, and I'll 
> enjoy the consistent idle of my (2C) engine.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Dave Lockhart
> DaveL322 at comcast.net
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> >> From: Nik Middleton 
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org 
>> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:41 PM
>> Subject: RE: My Head is Spinning! (Long)
>> 
>> 
>> Dave valid comments.
>>  
>> But....
>>  
>> Setting aside, initial costs, total cost of ownership etc, the ONE thing 
>> that keeps me firmly in the 4C camp is consistent idle.  What I have witnessed 
>> with my own eyes at US/European Nats, and World championships, is that if 
>> there is a dead stick after say, a long downline, it is ALWAYS and I really 
>> do mean always, a 2C.  You might say that it's an incorrect setup, but if the 
>> people at the peak are having this problem, what hope for us mere mortals?
>>  
>> rgds
>>  
>> 
> 
> 

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