Fw: Fixed Gear ( history in Oz)

David Lockhart DaveL322 at comcast.net
Fri Feb 20 08:38:01 AKST 2004


Just a couple more tidbits on the fixed gear evolution.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Goldsmith" <pgoldsmith at horizonhobby.com>
To: <DaveL322 at comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: Fixed Gear ( history in Oz)


Thanks Dave, all this is true. I remember talking to your dad about the fix
gear at the 96 nationals. Basically Bob and I were and still are good
friends. "Bob was my coach" I spent many hours with him. He told me
straight, I liked that.
Anyway I did some testing and asking at Sydney University and the results
are what we see today. I shared these with Bob and he offered to give it a
go. He was inspired by my findings. After what I saw with Bob I was
convinced, having some practical example of the theory to take the next
step.
To answer the question, not only is their less drag, it is considerably less
drag, providing there is no retract doors.
Also remember the real reason I went to fixed gear was roll stability.
Loosing lift and creating drag in the center of the wing increased the
instability in roll.
I proved this to myself by flying in rough weather, with retracts, then,
before the next flight covering up the wheel wells and bolting on the fixed
gear.
Ok, the results were astonishing. First thing I noticed the plane flew
faster "Less drag" it also sat much better in roll, "More roll stability"

That's how it all happened.

BTW Tom is one of the best builders I have ever seen, hopefully one day you
will get to see his models, they are better than any of the Japanese F3A
models I have seen, astounding work,

Thanks for sharing,
Your welcome to post this to the group if you wish,

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: DaveL322 at comcast.net
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:26 AM
To: Peter Goldsmith
Subject: Fw: Fixed Gear ( history in Oz)


Pete,

Not sure if you monitor the NSRCA pattern list, or if anyone else might have
already forwarded to you.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Koenig, Tom" <Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: Fixed Gear ( history in Oz)


>
> A little history for you guys...
>
> It was actually an older fellow by the name of Bob 'the bee man' Harrison
> who first used fixed gear in an F3A plane down here in Oz. He strapped it
> onto a new Rubin which he had built..including one of those 'Monster YS
120
> SC's'.
>
> Everyone was in awe at the time. We were all very sceptical about the
fixed
> gear thing...what was he thinking!!!! It just wasn't cricket!!!
>
> Anyway, Bob was a very practical  gentlemen and he flew this thing so well
> it gave the top boys a scare quite often..the fixed gear made it fly no
> worse, thats for sure. So a few eventually tried it as well. Pete did so
as
> well, on I think his third version (?) of the Carrera.
> Blowing my own trumpet here a bit..I actually did the first 2 M Carrera
back
> in 94-early 95 from Peters plans. The original version was not 2 M, but
> since I had access at work to a scanner I decided  to have a go at it. I
> think I first flew it at the Australian Masters in 95, with retracts. The
> paddock went silent on my first take off to watch this "Big" thing fly.
> After my first few manouvers interest subsided as I made a mess (ooops) of
> it all.The poor old OS 120SP nearly blew to bits as I had it set sooooo
lean
> ( nerves), I reckon it was near glowing when I landed! Only the top guys
> like Pete continued to watch. He was watching the plane...not the pilot. I
> think thats when their decision was made to try 2M birds as well.
> I remember Pete being really keen on fixed gear and he always spoke highly
> of it. I remember him talking about going to the US nats with it, would it
> rock the boat??? Look at where we are now. So hats off to him for making
it
> more than a fashion item, he gave it credibility.
>
> Tom
>
> > ----------
> > From: ronlock at comcast.net[SMTP:ronlock at comcast.net]
> > Reply To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2004 7:24
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Cc: vanputte at cox.net
> > Subject: Re: prophecy Fixed Gear
> >
> > I suspect the original research on that question was by Peter Goldsmith,
> > during design of his Carerra.  It was the only fixed gear bird in the
F3A
> > line
> > at a Nationals in mid 1990's.  Peter found that conventional gear
> > retracted into a door-less well had more drag than fixed gear with
pants.
> > That was the start of fixed gear becoming popular.
> >
> > Ron Lockhart
> >
> > >...John - Are you saying the the retract cutouts cause more drag than
the
> >
> > fixed gear with wheel pants?
> >
> > Ron Van Putte<
> >
> > >
> > > On Feb 18, 2004, at 10:57 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was unaware of the 160 engine. It will probably be necessary to
shut
> >
> > > > down
> > > > the engine to land. A fixed gear Prophecy does well on a standard
> > > > YS120.
> > > > Retracts seem to raise the power requirements somewhat.
> > >
> > > John - Are you saying the the retract cutouts cause more drag than the
> > > fixed gear with wheel pants?
> > >
> > > Ron Van Putte
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "jim ivey" <jivey61 at msn.com>
> > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:55 PM
> > > > Subject: re: prophecy ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Tim
> > > >> All the posts I have seen about your Prophecy are correct. 3/8
throw
> > > >> is
> > > > more
> > > >> than enough all the way around. My concern would be that you will
> > > >> have a
> > > >> bullet on your hands with the power of the 160. Not trying to scare
> > > >> you
> > > > but
> > > >> I would not fly it over 1/2 throttle, maybe 7000 rpm. The plane
> > > >> grooves
> > > > like
> > > >> no other sport plane you will ever have and can really scoot at
full
> > > >> throttle. I have had 2 prophecys and I powered the first one with a
> > YS
> > > > 140FZ
> > > >> which was more than enough power.
> > > >> Plan on cruising around easy at first to get used to it and you
won't
> >
> > > >> have
> > > >> any problem with the plane. Just go easy on the power.
> > > >>
> > > >> jim Ivey
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> jivey61 at msn.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> From: Tim Wortkoetter <twortkoetter at yahoo.com>
> > > >>> Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >>> To: nsrca <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > >>> Subject: re: prophecy ?
> > > >>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:38:31 -0800 (PST)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> John,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just set up the control throws and the elevator
> > > >>> doesn't look like 3/8" isn't very much.  I have never
> > > >>> flown anything like this before so I just want to make
> > > >>> sure that it is enough.  I usually have more throw on
> > > >>> my extra and sport planes.  Still in the learning
> > > >>> curve and if there is anything I should know about my
> > > >>> first time flying a 2m please let me know.  Thanks in
> > > >>> advance.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Tim Wortkoetter
> > > >>>
> > > >>> __________________________________
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> > > >>> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> > > >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/
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> > > >>> #
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> _________________________________________________________________
> > > >> Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your
> > > >> homepage.
> > > >> http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/
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