Snap Rolls.....are they legitimate/ RE: displacement during snap rolls discussion

[Archie Stafford]

I do not necessarily think they should be setup to prepare someone for FAI,
however I do think they need to progress and become more difficult every
rule change cycle, more Advanced and Masters than Sportsman and
Intermediate.  I do think the schedules are more complicated, but I remember
reading a few years ago in the K-Factor, I believe it was Frank Granelli,
forgive me if I am wrong about how today’s Advanced pilot fly many of the
same maneuvers that were frown on a world stage in the late 70’s and early
80’s.  
 
I do believe Sportsman should remain very basic that any capable sport
airplane should be able to fly the maneuvers and fly them well, and the same
for intermediate.  I think the only maneuvers that sport planes have a
problem with in those classes are the vertical maneuvers from a pure lack of
power.  There are not many 40 sized designs with a good .46 on the front
that can do point rolls on an upline, I’m sure there are exceptions, but for
the most part your average .40 sized Extra with a .46 is going to run out of
energy near the top of any extended vertical climb.
 
I think most of the people in the upper classes enjoy the challenge.  And
even the new maneuvers are not really that new, they are just a modification
of something that has been done in the past.  The new Avalanche in masters
is a perfect example. It is not that much more difficult than a standard
avalanche, yes it takes some more practice and changes in how you perform
the snap, but the fact that it happens at the bottom of the loop instead of
the top makes a big difference.  
 
A few years ago at the nats, the first year in masters with the 1 ½ snap
down, most of the pilots had major problems with this maneuver, but 3 years
later after flying it and practicing it more and understanding how to
perform the maneuvers most of the people I saw flying Masters this year at
the NATS, no matter where they finished were reasonably comfortable with
this maneuver and most of the ones that did have problems were flying it
correctly, but looked more like the plane wasn’t setup correctly, using too
much rudder, or aileron or whatever, but the pilots were comfortable with
the maneuver.  
 
I believe the first two classes should definitely be reasonable for a good
sport airplane to fly the sequences, then a somewhat larger jump to
Advanced, because lets be honest.  With the number of reasonable priced 2M
designs out today, if someone sticks with it until Advanced then they are
probably going to purchase a true “pattern” plane.  Even if it is a 2 year
old RTF plane from another pilot who has purchased a new airplane.    
 
I do not think that Masters should prepare someone for FAI specifically, but
it should definitely be the hardest class of AMA pattern.  Most of what we
do will always follow what FAI does.  It only makes sense for the AMA
pattern rules to follow what FAI does in terms of aircraft and powerplants
allowed.  This does not mean that we have to follow exactly what they do for
maneuver choice.  I think even snap rolls can be flown and flown well
consistently, just like spins, the problem we have now is no one knows what
everyone is looking for.  Some judges want to see more break than others,
some want them slower, when neither of these is a true criteria. The key is
to make sure everyone looks for the same things and pilots know exactly how
to perform the maneuvers. If it is written that you must show a 15 degree
break, then put it in there for the pilots to know what to fly.  They can be
flown anyway that we want to fly them, but the key is to make sure everyone
is looking to fly them the same way.  Even if it means at the NATS or some
judging seminar having someone fly a snap roll and then saying “OK, this is
a snap, whether judge A thinks so or not, this is what we are calling a snap
roll, you may not agree with it, but by definition, this is what we are
saying is a snap roll.”  To eventually get everyone on the same page as to
what to look for.
 
Arch
 
  _____  

From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Pastorello
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:26 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Snap Rolls.....are they legitimate/ RE: displacement during
snap rolls discussion
 
Dave, as always, thoughtful input....thanks!
    I, for one, (and perhaps the ONLY one) would like to know pure and
simple from the majority of folks playing AMA pattern....a yes or a no to
this question...
 
    "Should the progression of classes within AMA precision aerobatics be
designed to prepare a person for the FAI class?"
 
I would like to have this question put to all pattern fliers, and let the
answer shape the design of our sequences.  Period.
    (I know this is a good example of " be careful what you ask for ", but
has it ever been asked??)

Bob Pastorello
NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
rcaerobob at cox.net
www.rcaerobats.net
 
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