Displacement during snaps ** del klipped for reposting **

[Ed Deaver]

This is an interesting discussion.  At the Nats this year, I did my snap, I thought, the same way as usual, except the nose didn't pitch this time.  Dean Pappas gave me a zero, and the other 2 judges gave me 8's(or so)..As I was flying and saw what happened I got a bad feeling in my gut. 
 
In this case, Dean was correct.  I wasn't mad because he was correct, but it makes me wonder, at the Nats, where is the judging quality?(I know, another whole subject.)  When I saw this same lack of break(which I did see) I judged it a 0 also, and I feel accordingly.
 
If this entire discussion again demonstrates is that we will always have difference of opinion in regards to Snaps and Spins.
 
My other thought to the original quesion is if the plane is flying level or not on a vertical line at the end of the box, or 1/4 rolled on center, who has good enough eyes to see a slight disposition?????
 
ed

Archie Stafford <rcpattern at comcast.net> wrote:
It is the pilots responsibility to demonstrate the maneuver, but it is also
the judges responsibility to know what to look for. When several pilots are
scored the same way 9, 9, and 0, then obviously, either 2 of the judges or
the one judge are looking for different things. If it is a rarity and
happens to one pilot then I will agree it is on the pilots shoulders, but if
repeatedly "qualified" judges are scoring this way, then there is obviously
a discrepancy in what the judges are looking for.

You can do the exact same upline snap on a center maneuver and on a turn
around maneuver, and due to the change in viewing angle, what is scored as a
10 at the center may be a 0 at the end, even though they were done exactly
the same. Now which of these is correct? Unfortunately because of the
viewing angle, you will have to make the break on the end maneuver much more
pronounced to be visible. If you did this the same way on the center, you
would probably receive a much lower score because of the presentation, when
the fact is that they were the exact same maneuver and should've been scored
accordingly. Unless you have judges at the end of the box specifically
judging this like they do at the Worlds then there is no way to get this
correct.

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Dean Pappas
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:52 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: Displacement during snaps ** del klipped for reposting **

AMEN ... it's all on the pilot's shoulders.

Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com


-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Alt
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:11 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Displacement during snaps ** del klipped for reposting **


But it's the pilot's job to clearly present the manuever to remove any doubt

in the judges mind that a pitch break/autorotation actually did happen. 
I've been zeroed a few times when I *knew* that I did the pitch break right,

but both judges saw it differently. One time, it was Peter Goldsmith and he

nicely explained afterwards what he saw. I couldn't really argue. I just 
had to go back and work harder on getting my timing right to better show a 
break before, or at least simultaneous with the autorotation.

Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Lachowski" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Displacement during snaps ** del klipped for reposting **


> Del, awhile back I saw someones video of Quiques snap. In regular speed it

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