Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)

[Bill Glaze]

Matt:
When you see Fred, you will simply get the statement that "some 
displacement is O.K."  When I judged at the Challenge last year, I 
raised the question because, as I told him, you are then penalizing the 
few pilots who can do the snap without that rather ugly displacement.  
"Doesn't make any difference" he said.  Well, he was the boss, and the 
boss isn't always right, but he IS the boss, so..............

Bill Glaze

Rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:

> Thanks Chris, thats what I saw also. No real help there.
>  
> Six months ago when we last had SNAP conversations on these pages, it 
> was implied by one pilot who also flies Scale Aerobatic planes, that 
> if sideways displacement does not occur in SA routines on the order of 
> a wing span or two, (some SA models have 10 foot wing spans) it isn't 
> a snap and is zeroed. I wished to see that commentary in print. I hope 
> to see Fred Johnson in March in Ocala and I will try to get an answer.
>  
> In Pattern, about the only time we will see the plane displace one 
> wing span or more, is when it is led with rudder. I saw a couple like 
> these in the F3A Final last summer and zeroed these maneuvers. But the 
> biggest factor that was the total lack of break in attitude  prior to 
> the snap. (I agree with Dean and Dave, that's what I saw also) Judging 
> from the number of zero scores pilots received on snapping maneuvers, 
> Finals Judges in general saw things similarly. It is the pilot's 
> responsibility to make the break obvious and eliminate the guesswork 
> on the judge's part. If the pilot decides to displace first by first 
> applying rudder, so be it.
>  
> Personally, when the model enters the snap in accordance to the rules 
> and then displaces (pitch or yaw or both), I will downgrade 
> proportionately to the degree of displacement I see. One to four 
> points for each type. To me, it isn't "1 pt per 15 deg" rule that 
> applies in these cases, but the smoothness and gracefulness rule. (Its 
> a judgement call, that's why we call it Judging, duh!!)
>  
> Many Pattern models set-up properly, are capable of displacing very 
> small amounts, almost nil really, in both pitch and yaw and still 
> perform real Snap Rolls. Yet, I agree with Bob that a very small 
> amount of displacement is unavoidable due to finite amount of time it 
> takes to move the surfaces, and in that time span, the model is in 
> transition, moving to a stalled condition.
>  
> Happy New Year everybody
>  
> MattK
>  
> that In a message dated 12/29/2004 12:38:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> csl at direcway.com writes:
>
>     More descriptions can be found on page 109 of our AMA Competition
>     Regulations , sections 8.9.3 Family 9.9 : Positive Snaps and
>     section 8.9.4 Family 9.10 : Negative Snaps. 
>     As far as judging info, they talk about the usual 1 point per 10
>     degree rule, and zeroing a aileron roll, etc, but to me it is not
>     that different from our description on page 78.....
>      
>
>     Chris Larson
>     L & D Sales
>     209-274-2176 Office / Fax
>     209-304-0865 Cellular
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
>         [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
>         Rcmaster199 at aol.com
>         Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:17 PM
>         To: discussion at nsrca.org
>         Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
>         quiet?)
>
>         I am interested in what this Scale Aerobatics Judging guide
>         has to say. Is there a web site?
>          
>         MattK
>
>  

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