[SPAM] Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
quiet?)
Bill Glaze
billglaze at triad.rr.com
Wed Dec 29 09:39:13 AKST 2004
Ed:
If a new track is acceptable, then, that is a de facto downgrading (by
not allowing for extra skill) that is being applied to the pilot who
can, and does, perform a real snap, as opposed to a "fake" snap, and
keep it on the same line. By not downgrading the pilot who shows a
different track even though it is parallel, you are not giving a premium
to the pilot who can perform the difficult task of keeping the snap on
the same line of the maneuver. It can be done; first time I ever saw it
was at the TOC on a vertical snap where all the competitors save for one
person, were offsetting their vertical snaps 2 wingspans to the right,
(double snap rolls, to the right) This individual was able to keep his
snap rolls exactly in line. They looked much better. Was he rewarded?
In a way, I guess. That year he won the TOC, but not, of course, for
snap rolls alone!<G> BTW: I believe you were there that year, Ed.
Again: Sorry to be so prolux!
Bill Glaze
Ed Alt wrote:
> Hi Dave:
> Track & heading are different things, so I'm referring to a new track,
> exactly parallel to the original one, being 100% acceptable. A new
> heading however, ought to be subject to the point per 15 degrees criteria.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Lockhart <mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)
>
> More than 1 pilot was awarded 1 or more zeros in the 2004 US NATs
> F3A final on snap maneuvers. The "average" snap in subsequent
> flights in the finals showed more break / displacement (of course,
> any break / displacement is infinitely more compared to none,
> ahem.....).
>
> A stalled entry is a required element of spins - no stalled
> entry, score equals zero. No different for snaps. Judges are
> required to judge what they actually see (not what they think
> may have happened), and pilots are required to show / demonstrate
> / complete all required elements to avoid downgrades (which may be
> a downgrade to zero).
>
> To specifically answer Bob's question - my opinion - if the
> geometry of the manuever is not compromised, then no downgrade.
>
> Another question(s) - In a given maneuver involving a snap, the
> exit track of the plane is 15 degrees different than the track
> prior to the snap. What is the downgrade if the change in track
> is abrupt? What is the downgrade if the change in track is smooth?
>
> Regards and Happy Holidays,
>
> Dave Lockhart
> DaveL322 at comcast.net <mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ed Alt <mailto:Ed_Alt at hotmail.com>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
> quiet?)
>
> Good topic Bob. If the model really did a snap roll, it had
> to displace somewhat. If not, and if you could actually tell
> that it did not, that could be an indicator that a snap roll
> did not actually happen. Generally, the model has to displace
> to a new track, however slight, from the yawing and pitching
> moments introduced. The criteria should perhaps be that you
> are able to able to maintain the new track exactly in parallel
> to the pre-snap track. How much offset is OK is hard to say,
> but things generally start looking suspicious whan it's much
> more than a couple of wingspans. You would generally start to
> see other obvious problems, such as barrel rolling, if the
> displacement were really large. For another perspective, I
> think the Scale Aerobatics Flying and Judging Guide does
> a decent job of describing how to grade a snap.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Pastorello <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
> It can be very, very bad.
> Or not.
>
> Let's talk about displacement of the flight track during
> snap rolls. Whatcha y'all think? Is it downgradeable,
> and if so how much, and what is the criteria?
>
> Bob Pastorello
> NSRCA 199 AMA 46373
> rcaerobob at cox.net <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> www.rcaerobats.net <http://www.rcaerobats.net>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Hester <mailto:kerlock at comcast.net>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
> Ya well, it's definitely not going on the primary
> bird. For that I have a trusty OS 160FX with vp30
> pump. I know it will run when I want it to run.
>
> Just like me "testing" a new design, testing my
> feather cut, testing my composite skillz (or lack of),
> so far so good. Of course I didn't make the YS, so
> that one is more of a massochistic tendancy methinks.
> I'm not skeert to spend a buck. Plus it wouldn't take
> too much to drop in an OS if it comes to it. I've
> gotta see for myself if the fire is as hot as it
> looks. I usually suffer 3rd degree burns right after
> one of these moments.
>
> Classic last words: "How bad could it be?" =)
>
> -Mike
>
> PS Ok ok NEXT year.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Pastorello <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
> You have less than 3 days, then. Could be tricky
> for you.
> Besides, how does one "try" something that costs
> $700+ ? Sounds a bit like "testing" the $3500
> plasma tv.....
>
> Bob Pastorello
> NSRCA 199 AMA 46373
> rcaerobob at cox.net <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> www.rcaerobats.net <http://www.rcaerobats.net>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Hester <mailto:kerlock at comcast.net>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
> YS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Better?
>
> =)
>
> -Mike
>
> P.S. I am actually going to try a DZ 160 some
> time this year. This could mean the apocalypse
> is near.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: William C. Harden
> <mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:33 PM
> Subject: Why is it so quiet?
>
> I know someone out there has something
> interesting to say. So stir something up!
>
>
>
> Bill
>
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