[SPAM] Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)

Bill Glaze billglaze at triad.rr.com
Wed Dec 29 09:39:13 AKST 2004


Ed:
If a new track is acceptable, then, that is a de facto downgrading (by 
not allowing for extra skill) that is being applied to the pilot who 
can, and does, perform a  real snap, as opposed to a "fake" snap, and 
keep it on the same line.  By not downgrading the pilot who shows a 
different track even though it is parallel, you are not giving a premium 
to the pilot who can perform the difficult task of keeping the snap on 
the same line of the maneuver.  It can be done; first time I ever saw it 
was at the TOC on a vertical snap where all the competitors save for one 
person, were offsetting their vertical snaps 2 wingspans to the right,  
(double snap rolls, to the right)  This individual was able to keep his 
snap rolls exactly in line.  They looked much better.  Was he rewarded?  
In a way, I guess.  That year he won the TOC, but not, of course, for 
snap rolls alone!<G>  BTW: I believe you were there that year, Ed.  
Again: Sorry to be so prolux!

Bill Glaze

Ed Alt wrote:

> Hi Dave:
> Track & heading are different things, so I'm referring to a new track, 
> exactly parallel to the original one, being 100% acceptable.  A new 
> heading however, ought to be subject to the point per 15 degrees criteria.
>  
> Ed
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: David Lockhart <mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net>
>     To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>     Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:40 PM
>     Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)
>
>     More than 1 pilot was awarded 1 or more zeros in the 2004 US NATs
>     F3A final on snap maneuvers.  The "average" snap in subsequent
>     flights in the finals showed more break / displacement (of course,
>     any break / displacement is infinitely more compared to none,
>     ahem.....).
>      
>     A stalled entry is a required element of spins - no stalled
>     entry, score equals zero.  No different for snaps.  Judges are
>     required to judge what they actually see (not what they think
>     may have happened), and pilots are required to show / demonstrate
>     / complete all required elements to avoid downgrades (which may be
>     a downgrade to zero).
>      
>     To specifically answer Bob's question - my opinion - if the
>     geometry of the manuever is not compromised, then no downgrade.
>      
>     Another question(s) - In a given maneuver involving a snap, the
>     exit track of the plane is 15 degrees different than the track
>     prior to the snap.  What is the downgrade if the change in track
>     is abrupt?  What is the downgrade if the change in track is smooth?
>      
>     Regards and Happy Holidays,
>      
>     Dave Lockhart
>     DaveL322 at comcast.net <mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net>
>      
>      
>      
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>         From: Ed Alt <mailto:Ed_Alt at hotmail.com>
>         To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>         Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:04 PM
>         Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
>         quiet?)
>
>         Good topic Bob.  If the model really did a snap roll, it had
>         to displace somewhat.  If not, and if you could actually tell
>         that it did not, that could be an indicator that a snap roll
>         did not actually happen. Generally, the model has to displace
>         to a new track, however slight, from the yawing and pitching
>         moments introduced.  The criteria should perhaps be that you
>         are able to able to maintain the new track exactly in parallel
>         to the pre-snap track.  How much offset is OK is hard to say,
>         but things generally start looking suspicious whan it's much
>         more than a couple of wingspans.  You would generally start to
>         see other obvious problems, such as barrel rolling, if the
>         displacement were really large.  For another perspective, I
>         think the Scale Aerobatics Flying and Judging Guide does
>         a decent job of describing how to grade a snap.
>          
>         Ed
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>             From: Bob Pastorello <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
>             To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>             Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:31 PM
>             Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
>             It can be very, very bad.
>             Or not.
>              
>             Let's talk about displacement of the flight track during
>             snap rolls.  Whatcha y'all think?  Is it downgradeable,
>             and if so how much, and what is the criteria?
>
>             Bob Pastorello
>             NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
>             rcaerobob at cox.net <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
>             www.rcaerobats.net <http://www.rcaerobats.net>
>              
>              
>
>                 ----- Original Message -----
>                 From: Mike Hester <mailto:kerlock at comcast.net>
>                 To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>                 Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:21 PM
>                 Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
>                 Ya well, it's definitely not going on the primary
>                 bird. For that I have a trusty OS 160FX with vp30
>                 pump. I know it will run when I want it to run.
>                  
>                 Just like me "testing" a new design, testing my
>                 feather cut, testing my composite skillz (or lack of),
>                 so far so good. Of course I didn't make the YS, so
>                 that one is more of a massochistic tendancy methinks.
>                 I'm not skeert to spend a buck. Plus it wouldn't take
>                 too much to drop in an OS if it comes to it. I've
>                 gotta see for myself if the fire is as hot as it
>                 looks. I usually suffer 3rd degree burns right after
>                 one of these moments.
>                  
>                 Classic last words: "How bad could it be?"  =)
>                  
>                 -Mike
>                  
>                 PS Ok ok NEXT year.
>
>                     ----- Original Message -----
>                     From: Bob Pastorello <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
>                     To: discussion at nsrca.org
>                     <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>                     Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:47 PM
>                     Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
>                     You have less than 3 days, then.  Could be tricky
>                     for you.
>                     Besides, how does one "try" something that costs
>                     $700+  ?  Sounds a bit like "testing" the $3500
>                     plasma tv.....
>
>                     Bob Pastorello
>                     NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
>                     rcaerobob at cox.net <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
>                     www.rcaerobats.net <http://www.rcaerobats.net>
>                      
>                      
>
>                         ----- Original Message -----
>                         From: Mike Hester <mailto:kerlock at comcast.net>
>                         To: discussion at nsrca.org
>                         <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>                         Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:38 PM
>                         Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
>
>                         YS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!
>                          
>                         Better?
>                          
>                         =)
>                          
>                         -Mike
>                          
>                         P.S. I am actually going to try a DZ 160 some
>                         time this year. This could mean the apocalypse
>                         is near.
>
>                             ----- Original Message -----
>                             From: William C. Harden
>                             <mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>                             To: discussion at nsrca.org
>                             <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>                             Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:33 PM
>                             Subject: Why is it so quiet?
>
>                             I know someone out there has something
>                             interesting to say.  So stir something up!
>
>                              
>
>                             Bill
>
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