Judge ranking discussion was > (Re: Motion to adopt.)

Tue Dec 14 07:31:42 AKST 2004

I dont follow full scale aerobatics but would be curious if anyone knows how they handle this situation. I cant imagine that the judge or contestant pool for full scale aerobatics is much  different in size than for remote control aerobatics.

Brian
> 
> From: Bob Kane 
> Date: 2004/12/14 Tue AM 11:18:53 EST
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: FW: Motion to adopt.
> 
> You are correct, the opportunities to be ranked as a
> judge are few and far between, but they are the only
> statistically valid comparisons. I am hoping someone
> who is a statistician will jump in and offer the
> mathmatical proof, I know enough to be dangerous. I
> wish it were possible to enter judge's scores from
> every contest into some kind of database to come up
> with a performance ranking. Unfortunately, it is
> statistically invalid since they are judging different
> events at different times with no correlation between
> them. The only thing you could compute would be an
> average awarded score and a range for each judge which
> while interesting, means nothing about absolute
> performance. 
> 
> --- vicenterc at comcast.net wrote:
> 
> > Hi Tony:
> > 
> > The problem is that the judges that have the
> > opportunity to participate in 5 judges event is very
> > low. Are you sure that the data even with two
> > judges is not significant? I will agree that with
> > the 5 judges the data will be more significant using
> > using two contest only. With two judges doing all
> > country with several contest per judge will become
> > significant data also. At least will be more
> > significant than the method is used now. The
> > results from the previous years Nats. should be also
> > used since this is three judge event. In this way,
> > NSRCA will give more opportunity to all certified
> > judges and the process will be transparent and clear
> > to all. There are other benefits, yes we love
> > competition and this will be a competition to become
> > better judges. The end results is that NSRCA will
> > help improve not only the pilots skills but also the
> > judging skills which is very important part of our
> > sport. 
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Vince Bortone
> > 
> > -------------- Original message -------------- 
> > 
> > Chris/Vince:
> > 
> > The judging program that the Team created does just
> > that! You can see the standings on the NSRCA
> > website. The standings are created from the data of
> > contests where we use a minimum of 5 judges per
> > flight. This is only done (to my knowledge) at the
> > US Nats FINALS, and the Team Selection Contest. The
> > requirement of 5 judges in essential to get valid
> > statistics. 
> > 
> > Tony Stillman
> > Radio South
> > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > Pensacola, FL 32505
> > 1-800-962-7802
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Chris Larson 
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org 
> > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:32 PM
> > Subject: RE: FW: Motion to adopt.
> > 
> > 
> > I agree Vince.
> > 
> > HUGE undertaking, but the results would be
> > fantastic. Imagine the ability to compare yourself
> > to all judges across the country. Now that's
> > motivation to better yourself at your craft.
> > 
> > Hmmm..... At the same time, how about a national
> > PILOT ranking system, similar to the one used in the
> > USTA ( Tennis ). I believe they know their rank in
> > their given class on a national basis. Might be
> > kind of fun, and good for us guys who can't travel
> > to the Nats! We could still be "competing" with
> > guys from the other districts! 
> > 
> > Publish the top judges and the top competitors in
> > each class in the K-Factor.
> > 
> > Chris Larson
> > L & D Sales
> > 209-274-2176 Office / Fax
> > 209-304-0865 Cellular 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> > vicenterc at comcast.net
> > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:49 PM
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org; NSRCA List
> > Cc: Derek Koopowitz
> > Subject: Re: FW: Motion to adopt.
> > 
> > 
> > I am firm believer of statistics. I have not chance
> > to read the program proposed but I am sure that
> > should be based on statistical formulation. In
> > statistics, more data is compiled more valid will be
> > the results and conclusions obtained from that
> > analysis. I am not am expert but I would like to
> > see in the future a process of judge selection that
> > is based on all information compiled in ALL contests
> > around the nation. Yes, I am proposing that all
> > data be compiled and used to determine the best
> > judges. I don't think that this is very difficult
> > task since the data is already available in
> > electronic format. We will need to make sure that
> > the CD sends the information to the NSRCA. I know
> > that there will be many happy faces if some of the
> > new candidates support this effort. 
> > Mortal guys like me will say that this is
> > impossible. However, this is very easy task to
> > someone expert in databases and computer
> > programming. We just need to make sure that all
> > scoring programs produce the data in the format
> > required. That program will use the judge NSRCA
> > number to send the information to be processed at
> > the end of the year or season. 
> > The results of a process like this will be of
> > immense value. First, we will know how we are doing
> > compared with others as judges in the nation. 
> > Second, we will have the opportunity to try to
> > improve each year base on the feedback. In the
> > nats., we will have more flexibility in selecting
> > judges for different classes and team selection.
> > Sincerely,
> > Vince Bortone
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------- Original message -------------- 
> > 
> > > Just goes to show how some people have selected
> > memory loss with regard to 
> > > the judge evaluation program... Please read the
> > quoted lines that RVP quoted 
> > > below - Eric H. is VERY familiar with the judge
> > selection process and was 
> > > instrumental in getting it through the board of
> > directors on 12/10/2002. 
> > > 
> > > Why is he questioning it now when he proposed its
> > vote? Oh I get it... It's 
> > > election time! 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > From: Ron Van Putte [mailto:vanputte at nuc.net] 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:41 AM 
> > > To: officers at nsrca.org 
> > > Cc: Tony Stillman 
> > > Subject: Re: Motion to adopt. 
> > > 
> > > [NSRCA Officers] 
> > > I second the motion. 
> > > 
> > > As I explained at the Nats board meeting, Tony
> > Stillman, Matt Kebabjian, Don 
> > > Ramsey and I have hammered out the skeleton of the
> > judge evaluation prog 
> 
> 
> =====
> Bob Kane
> getterflash at yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 

Bob Pastorello, El Reno, OK, USA
rcaerobob at cox.net
www.rcaerobats.net

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