Wind correction / wings level take 2 *klipped*

[Del Rykert]

I'm agree with Ken... With our planes so well trimmed and balanced the
elevator input in a crab should be pure rotational and now roll unless the
plane has roll coupling. When my wings are truly level I can have an
established crab as long as the site I'm flying at has steady cross wind
component and not have any correction needed. The problem is most flying
sites don't have it so lucky.
     del
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Velez" <kvelez at comcast.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Wind correction / wings level take 2


>    I still don't understand why are the wings moving or why they need to
be
> moved.  If you fly a horizontal line left to right with the same wind
> condition as described by Jim, once you achieved the crab angle to
maintain
> a straight line no more rudder is needed unless the wind changes. The
> airplane should maintain that heading and wings level. In case of  the
> reverse humpty if you push from the top with the crab angle in and the
wings
> are level before the push the track is maintained without the help of wing
> movement. That's what we are looking for anyway, track straight with wings
> level. If thru that push or pull the wings move I think the problem lies
> somewhere else. As far as Dave Lockhart we fly together some times and I
can
> tell you if you see any roll movement thru a loop or loop segment the
source
> of  the roll correction is other than wind correction. If wing position is
> used to wind correct in my opinion it should be downgraded.
>
> Regards
> Ken V.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <js.smith at verizon.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Wind correction / wings level take 2
>
>
> While attending the Sayre contest this past weekend, my friend and I
decided
> to do a little practice judging while Dave Lockhart flew.  We were amazed
to
> see him doing exactly that.blending the roll while executing loops.  In
fact
> we had a discussion after his flight trying to figure out how he did it.
> Our conclusion was "you roll into the wind" while pulling or pushing.at
> least for quarter loops.
>
> When Dave flew, you couldn't see the roll correction.just the fact that
the
> track was perfect going in and perfect coming out and the wings were
always
> level or square to the flight line.  A real treat to watch!
>
> Scott
>
> >
> > From: Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com
> > Date: 2004/08/09 Mon PM 01:39:25 EDT
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Subject: Wind correction / wings level take 2
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I think discussion about 1 single maneuver will address everything I
sent
> > initially below.  P05, Reverse humpty-bump, 2/4 down, 1/2 roll up:
> > Scenario.  The wind is blowing 20 mph 90 degrees out.
> >
> > 1.  Entry;  the plane is flying a horizontal inverted track at the top
of
> > the box right to left, the fuselage is yawed 10 degrees  inward to
> > compensate for the wind.
> > 2.  Entry Radius:  Pilot pulls up elevator while simultaneously adding
> > aileron and rudder to transition the plane to a vertically tracked
> > downline, fuselage is angled into the wind to maintain vertical track.
> > 3.  2/4 is performed maintaining track (still angled in to compensate
for
> > the wind)
> > 4.  Bottom radius:  The pilot pushes around the bottom adding rudder to
> > maintain track, ailerons to level the wings around the bottom, then
> > opposite rudder to lean "into" the wind on the upline. (obviously, pilot
> > nor judge wants to see banked wings at the bottom this maneuver which
> > would result if no aileron was added due to downline cant/angle of
> > fuselage to maintain track).
> > 5.  1/2 roll is performed still angled in somewhat.
> > 6.  Pilot switches rudder input to still compensate for the wind on the
> > upline.
> > 7.  Exit radius:  Pilot pushes out, using rudder to maintain heading,
and
> > aileron to create wings level across the top of the box.  Blended in
with
> > the exit, the plane is now wings level angled "in" to compensate for the
> > wind, heading into the reverse double I.
> >
> > There is a lot of "flying" going on in the 3 different radii of this
> > maneuver.  The wings/plane MUST actually roll to achieve the various
> > "wings-level" positions of the: downlines, bottom radius, upline, and
upon
> > exit.  Is this amount of "flying" done in the radii simply addressed in
> > the wind correction statements like:  "each maneuver must be
> > wind-corrected to preserve the overall geometry"?
> >
> > My contention again is that the plane MUST perform a blended rolling
> > element during the radii to create a cross-wind corrected maneuver.  I
> > think the best looking thing to do is move the wings at a rate
> > proportional to the arc of the radii - thus, you don't "see" a discreet
> > aileron fix.  A discrete aileron fix at the end of the radii would be a
> > certain queue to downgrade.  I believe I've learned the correct way to
fly
> > a cross wind condition, but I have not heard anyone really discuss the
> > amount or "flying" going on in the various radii to handle a cross wind
> > condition.
> > Thanks,
> > Jim W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Forwarded by Jim Woodward/BEA on 08/09/2004 01:05 PM -----
> >
> >
> > Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com
> > Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > 08/09/2004 09:12 AM
> > Please respond to discussion
> >


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