F3A Biplanes have a future!

[Henderson,Eric]

Wing mounting on a bi-plane is much more problematic than what we are used to. Do you use plug-on wings, what type of interplane struts, four servos for ailerons or inter-control surface rods? Cabane design is always the toughest problem on a bi-plane. Not to mention the trimming knowledge needed.

The wing failure(s) I heard about were in the wing mounts that had been made light with balsa, and really needed ply. The parameters that we set for plane weight and size bring out the best in the designers. I truly believe that we will soon see competitive bi-planes.

One position I would like to take is that I am very much against changing pattern rules/parameters, (2M and 5Kg and db), just because our more advanced pilots can build and fly bigger or heavier planes. (There are options for those needs in scale aerobatics etc.) In example form, a bi-pane might prove too hard to make light enough with a suitably sized and possibly heavy engine. We should not change the rules to allow a plane to be heavier if it is a bi-plane with a 50cc gas engine that has an in-cowl muffler that runs @ 99db. 

Also before you all get carried away, and for those of you with no bi-plane flight experience, you have not lived until you try and land one in a 20mph cross wind... landing and take-off points in AMA classes still count towards the win. In FAI they(we) just have to get it off the ground and roughly back in the same area, with a couple of procedure turns, to get 10 points...

Regards,

Eric.

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of patterndude at attbi.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:05 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: F3A Biplanes have a future!


Clearly building a pattern bipe under 5kg is pushing the envelope for most 
builders.  Just like the breakthroughs in light laminate construction that are 
giving us larger fuses, we need some technological advance in wing construction 
techniques.  
  There are a lot of wing construction experiments going on with hollow wings, 
sheet glass skins, foam ribs, etc., but the best results seem hard to reproduce 
and difficult for the home modeler to achieve. 
  At first, the early adopters will pay the big bucks and take the bigger 
risks.  Such is the cycle of advancement.

--Lance
> >That makes three (publically known) biplane projects going on right now.
> >Just when you think you've got the best.... ;>  Time to spend more money.
> 
> Two of which crashed on their first flight due to structural failure 
> of the wings.
> 
> More money is right.
> 
> >
> >I'm rather torn on this biplane issue.  Should FAI add a new rule that
> >outlaws them?  On one hand, I'm sure they will improve our flights, but on
> >the other I don't want them to be advantage over the planes we have now.
> >Kind of like changing the 2m size limit to 2.5m.  The guys with the big
> >factories behind them will have an advantage, while the rest of us will be
> >alienated.  Going to biplanes might be no different than going to 2.5m, only
> >it isn't against the rules.  Or, it might be like the switch to 2m planes
> >from the .60 planes.  I would hate to go back to a 0.60 after flying a 2m.
> 
> Pattern will die before we go back to 0.60 sized airplanes. 
> Pandora's box was opened a long time ago.
> 
> >
> >That said, I want a biplane.  I do expect they will fly better, which is
> >certainly a good thing, and someone has to develop them before I get to fly
> >it.
> 
> When someone can properly define what "flying better" is, then we 
> have something that can be debated.  Until then this is just 
> marketing.
> 
> Jerry
> -- 
> ___________
> Jerry Budd
> Budd Engineering
> http://www.buddengineering.com
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