Snap rolls (long)

Mon Jun 23 12:08:05 AKDT 2003

I think the word "simultaneous" just about removes any debate for me.
Besides, a nose heavy plane can have a break in pitch without ever leaving
the line its on, where as a tail heavy plane might jump up 5 feet.  Which
one is correct?  They both are. I like the visual description of holding a
pencil or pen in your fingers.  Roll the pencil, and it is an aileron roll.
Roll the pencil and "wobble" the tip and eraser, and you have a snap.  Roll
the pencil, and translate the whole pencil through a cylinder, and you have
a barrel roll.  It hasn't really been said yet in this thread, but be
careful not to second guess the technique you think the pilot is using.  It
doesn't matter how they do it, what matters is that we "judges" see a snap.
We talked about this at the Fresno, CA contest this weekend.  Once I write
this down, it may seen very "narrow" where as in conversation we agreed that
there were a number of ways to do it and that most importantly, they don't
all have to look the same plane to plane.  We thought that evidence of a
good snap was (in no particular order):  change in airspeed, seeing the cone
rotation of the tail or nose, rapid autorotation in the 3 axis.  We were
discussing this because we happened to see some barrel roll snaps, and some
"linear" snaps or something and each were zeroed, but represented two
different ways to do a snap incorrectly.  After the round, we discussed it
from the "pilots" perspective and showed each other how much throw and such
the different pilots were using for the snaps.  

Thanks,

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Mueller [mailto:mmueller at triangleprinters.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 1:38 PM
To: 'discussion at nsrca.org'
Subject: RE: Snap rolls (long)

 Right on Claude!

-----Original Message-----
From: Weimer, Claude [mailto:cweimer at wilkinson-mfg.com]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 12:41 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: Snap rolls (long)

Are we trying to read more into judging criteria than is there?  The
rulebook says simultaneous and I'm not sure the interpretation means the
stall has to come before pitch and roll. It seems to me the stall is caused
by the change in pitch regardless if yaw and roll are applied at the same
time.   

-----Original Message-----
From: Patternrules at aol.com [mailto:Patternrules at aol.com]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 11:53 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Snap rolls (long)

Rule book page 78
Snaps-----A snap is a simultaneous, rapid autorotation in pitch, yaw and
roll axes of flight in a stalled wing attitude. The following criteria
apply:

OK now here's where Earls explanation comes in: and he is correct, now it
seems that some wording is off in the rules the word simultaneous should not
be there as in the next sentence it clearly says that (initiated by a rapid
stall of the wing induced by a change in pitch attitude) this tells me I
have been doing this wrong all the time and need to do some work on this
maneuver.

An old fossil head like me it is much easier to do all the sticks at one
time, what I have always looked for is like the description on the snip, a
cone and it is pretty easy to see when someone is rolling out of the
maneuver instead of snapping all the way though. So now all that is left is
to try and get these old hands and mind to relearn something in 3 weeks, and
review the judging tape another time.

Thanks
Steve Maxwell

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