Wrong Maneuver issues

[Atwood, Mark]

Personally I think we're not THAT far from having a wireless (bluetooth) numeric keypad for the judge to enter scores on, with a "scorekeeper" that ques up the appropriate pilot while sitting at the PC.  Still a little ways out...need to deal with multiple port entry and how to deal with mistakes...but still, the technology is awfully close.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Abdullah [mailto:aabdu at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:27 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: Wrong Maneuver issues


Wouldn't a simple hand held or headset tape recorder solve that problem. It would also make it a lot easier for the people entering the scores to just play it back. Most of them are not data entry professionals and being able to enter scores without looking away from the keys would probably help. At the beginning of a flight just say the pilot's name then 1 (for first manuever) and so on.  

Woodward James R Civ 412 TW/DRP/ACQ <James.Woodward2 at edwards.af.mil> wrote: 

These last two posts exemplify several reasons for having a scribe.  The scribe can call the maneuvers for you, and allows you to keep your eyes on the plane.  Many times, including this year, you can watch judges habitually miss nearly every exit and entry of maneuvers while they are writing down scores.

Jim W.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Abdullah [mailto:aabdu at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:11 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: Wrong Maneuver issues

 

Mark makes a good point. Just as most pilots are rusty at the beginning of the season, so are most judges. As the year wears on a manuever that would get an 8.5 in May might get a 7.  Not because of a description or rule change, but because the judging gets sharper. Make all of your mistakes early in the season as it will get a lot harder to get away with them later in the year. Fortunately your flying will get better as the judging gets tougher so it is all pretty much a wash anyway.

 

That is one of the problems with contestant / human judging. I now have a product to add to my wish list with the YS140/160 2 stroke. A holographic scoring program projected into the sky HUD style that can automatically judge each manuever flown against a rule book template. It would allow for different styles of flying, adjust for manuever size, and have correct geometry programmed in. Of course it would normalize flight scores after each round.

"Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote:

I know we joke about it a lot, but it's a difficult issue. It's hard to memorize 5 sets of schedules...especially the more complicated ones. Until recently, most of the more advanced pilots had been through the lower ranks with the same schedules...they hadn't changed in many years. After having flown the sportsman, advanced, and masters sequences literally a thousand times, it was unlikely that I would forget the sequence. Made them easy to judge without effort. 

But now, the sequences are all new to all of us. Unless you're very diligent, which is often NOT the case at a local spring contest, it's easy for the judges to judge the maneuver flown, rather then the one required. This is especially true of similar manuevers...1/2 square with 1/2 roll rather than 1/2 square with 2/4...or your 1/2 cuban rather than 1/2 reverse cuban etc.

You'll find fewer and fewer errors as the summer progresses and as the manuevers become more familiar to everyone. 

Still...best to be quiet. Bob P. managed to fly an inside-inside cuban eight with 1 1/2 rolls rather than an inside-outside cuban with full rolls in masters at the '99 nats and got 8's from all 4 judges...not the best endorsement.

-M


-----Original Message-----
From: jed241 at msn.com [mailto:jed241 at msn.com]
Sent: Tue 6/10/2003 6:30 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Wrong Maneuver issues

Mark,

Do you think if I did a 1/2 Reverse Cuban 8 after the straight flight back instead of the correct 1/2 Cuban 8 again, the judges might have missed it...Oh, I remember...They marked it zero when I said "oh shoot"... I was pretty proud of that scribbled out 8 though...ha...

Larry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Atwood, Mark 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: Wrong Maneuver issues


I'll go back to my previous statement...I'm a huge advocate of "benefit of the doubt"...which means if I know the manuever they're trying to fly, then it's "recognized" and I would award the downgrade, not a zero. Lord knows we'd be handing out zeros continuously in sportsman otherwise. 

I only use the "unrecognizable manuever" zero when it's so bad that the manuever would be a zero if I did recognize it....


Take the double Weedon for example :) VBG...sorry Tom...couldn't help myself.
-----Original Message-----
From: Henderson,Eric [mailto:Eric.Henderson at gartner.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:51 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Wrong Maneuver issues


The example below is clearly the wrong maneuver, but what about a top-hat where the pilot does not draw a straight line on the top. It looks just like a Humpty so do you zero for unrecognizable maneuver, or down-grade 2-4 points???

E.


-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of WHIP23 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:28 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Scoring Vs Judging


In a message dated 6/10/03 8:20:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gfowler at raytheon.com writes:



Yeah but if you 1/2 rolled on the way up, pushed over the top, then no roll would be required on the down leg....




I agree the issue is that the 1/2 roll must be on the up line, the zero was for a 1/2 roll on the way down, not a legal variation per the rule book.

Bob 



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