Snaps

[Keith Black]

Catching this on video tape is going to be very challenging. It would be cool if we could get this information accurately recorded into a computer simulation, then it could be viewed from any angle, with any background, and zoomed at any desired level. Furthermore the input controls could be observed in conjunction with the physical orientation of the plane.

To get a real world recording of this telemetry data would probably be extremely costly (unless someone on this list happens to have access to this type of equipment). In lieu of the real world inputs perhaps one of the experienced FAI pilots on this list could make some recordings in RealFlight G2 and share those recording files. I would suggest several samples of correct and incorrect snaps, also in different attitudes. 

It is true that this may not be exactly accurate but it will certainly be a good starting point and it is free for people that already have RealFlight. And once it's in RealFlight a video tape could easily be made and given to those that don't have RealFlight.

I see the major challenge in doing this in RealFlight is to come up with airplane profiles that will very closely perform like different types of pattern planes from narrow bodied to wide bodies to biplanes. However, if these profiles are setup they themselves would useful to many on this mailing list.

Keith Black
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tony Stillman 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:19 AM
  Subject: Re: Snaps


  NSRCA was offered the professional services of Jay Gerber (NFL Films, who made the Judging Video).  Jay said he would help, if we were interested, but he had done several test videos over the years with production quality cameras, and found if very difficult to capture a model on film to show details that we were looking for.  The major problem is getting a background so that you can evaluate deviations.  

  Jay told me he would do anything to help us, so maybe something will come of it.  It is up for discussion at our board meeting at the Nats....

  Tony Stillman
  Radio South
  3702 N. Pace Blvd.
  Pensacola, FL 32505
  1-800-962-7802
  www.radiosouthrc.com
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Bill Glaze 
    To: discussion at nsrca.org 
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:31 AM
    Subject: Re: Snaps


    Thanks, Tony, I had wondered about what had happened.  A video like this could be very beneficial, but could also be hard to produce.  Another organization of which I was a board member, had a commercial company video a judges seminar, and a field session of flying.  The tape cost the organization $500, and was nearly worthless.  Lesson learned. 
    I hope a tape of parallel quality to the existing NSRCA tape on judging, can be produced. 
    Bill Glaze 

    Tony Stillman wrote: 

       Bill: Some funding had been approved and budgeted for, but the actual video turned out much harder to make than was originally expected. This issue will be discussed in the Annual NSRCA Board Meeting at the Nats next week. Tony Stillman 
      Radio South 
      3702 N. Pace Blvd. 
      Pensacola, FL 32505 
      1-800-962-7802 
      www.radiosouthrc.com 
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bill Glaze
        To: discussion at nsrca.org
        Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 2:22 PM
        Subject: Re: Snaps
         It seems to me that the NSRCA was working on a spin/snaproll video last year.  It mad a splash on this group, and then faded into oblivion.  Anybody remember it?  Or know what happened to it? 
        Bill Glaze 

        Mike Turgeman wrote: 

          I agree with you. That's why I think a video will help all of us to understand the discussed issues better. I hope that there will be more than one video clip.The main thing I would like to here comments about is the amount of attitude change needed during the snap. Obviously the airplane must be stalled but no one is flying with AOA sensor on board so the pilot and the judges have to estimate the stall visually. I am interested to see what they expect and how they estimate it.Mike 
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Del Rykert
            To: discussion at nsrca.org
            Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 4:13 AM
            Subject: Re: Re:Snaps
             Good idea Mike but I have found video can sometimes be misleading as different aircraft present so differently in some ways regarding the snap. This thread has helped show just how challenging it is to judge and fly correctly.      Del K. Rykert 
                 AMA - 8928 
                 NSRCA - 473 
                 Kb2joi - General 
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Mike Turgeman
              To: discussion at nsrca.org
              Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:33 AM
              Subject: Re:Snaps
               Hi all,Very interesting discussion on a very important issue. As Earl mentioned sometimes a good snap is misjudged because we are used to see the bad one. I think so too. Most of the judges expect too much attitude change and score zero for snaps with small attitude change because they consider it as an axial roll.Maybe someone could post a short video that demonstrate how a real 1 1/2 snap should look like.Mike Turgeman
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