Judging behaviour

Thu Jan 23 06:48:19 AKST 2003

Thanks for this clarification of your concern.  I understand your point, 
and there are several other concerns to be balanced.  I don't know the 
right answer.  Consider this real life scenario: A judge is docking 2 
points because the pilot doesn't land directly ON the centerline.  He is a 
new judge and doesn't really know the rules.  Now some would say "he must 
be left to be consistent for hte entire round so it will al balance out in 
the end - this makes it fair".  I say, "this is unfair and will benefit 
some and hurt others - will not balance out - and will unbalance close 
contests". 
  Should the judge be told that he is judging incorrectly in time to 
minimize the damage?

--Lance

"Peter Pennisi" <pentagon.systems at bigpond.com>
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
01/23/2003 08:42 AM
Please respond to discussion

        To:     <discussion at nsrca.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: Judging behaviour

I have no problems with post flight comments if the pilot asks,
especially if he is new to pattern and wants to improve his/her flying.

Someone who may be struggling with a four point roll for example may ask
for some advice if the person who is judging is a more experienced
flyer.

I guess what I am trying to say is if a pilot is struggling with some
elements of his flight and concedes that he has, at the end of his
flight by asking for help then I have no problem with giving some
feedback.

I feel my situation was a little different. I didn't ask. I guess he
could have expressed his view to the other judges if I wasn't there but
I can't stop that.

The point I tried to make in my original post was judges and pilots need
to maintain some level of ethical behaviour at comps to say "keep the
peace"

I am the first to admit that criticism and comments are needed to make
you
A better pilot, however there is a time and place for that and that
isn't on the flight line of a national championship.

The old saying that "Money is the root of all evil" it is similar to say
that "judging is the root of most arguments at pattern competitions"
unfortunately, I don't think I am on my own here when I say this. By
keeping opinions to ourselves certainly goes a long way to keep harmony.

Peter Pennisi
Pentagon Systems
P.O Box 4280
Eight Mile Plains
QLD 4113
Australia
Phone:    61+0738414234
Fax:        61+0733419203
Mobile:   0408007206
Email: pentagon.systems at bigpond.com

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Dave & Sue Funk
Sent: Thursday, 23 January 2003 22:28 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Judging behaviour

I agree with Rick completely. Comments from the judges is welcome. (POST
FLIGHT)

 Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Wallace" <rickwallace45 at hotmail.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: Judging behaviour

> I'm a fairly new pattern pilot, and welcome the comments of more
experienced
> pilots anytime I can get 'em, especially since they're  pilots too,
and
are
> virtually always more experienced than I am.
>
> I look at immediate post-flight conversation w/ the judges as a way to
> improve my flying. I'll routinely turn to the judges after I land and
ask
> them for their comments.
> Sometimes they'll let me know that they'd rather not comment, and I
thank
> them and leave. Often, though, one or more will be willing to give his
> impressions and perceptions of the flight - this can be as valuable as
any
> other input.
>
> Of course, if the next guy already has his engine running, and is
waiting
to
> step into the box then there's no discussion- -it's his flight line.
> Otherwise, why not get the mini-critique?
>
> By the same token when I judge, when a competitor *asks* for feedback
(and
> only then) after his flight, I'll give it (usually deferring to the
more
> senior judge if there is one) when there's time before the next
pilot's
up.
> I trust the other judge not to be influenced (not to be swayed in his
> judgiung the rest of the round) by my comments, as I try not to be
swayed
by
> his comments.
>
> We pattern guys don't fly together enough as it is, and should take
max
> advantage of the chances to help each other and to be helped.
>
> My $.02 -
> Rick
>
> >
> >I recently attended a competition in which the conduct of a
particular
> >judge
> >left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. As I turned towards the
judges
> >after
> >completing my flight this particular person (experienced F3A judge)
made
a
> >number of comments about my flight being flown too far out and that
he
> >docked several points per manoeuvre. These comments were made in the
> >presence of the other two judges.
> >
> >I am not going to argue that I was or wasn't. The concern I had with
this
> >behaviour was he could have influenced the other judges to think the
same
> >as
> >they had less experience. This type of conduct should not be allowed
to
> >happen. Judges should be able to judge a flight based on their own
> >perception and interpretation of rules etc. If this particular person
> >thought that I should be docked 2 points per manoeuvre then that
should
be
> >his opinion only.
> >
> >The issue here is that most of us on this list judge and fly
aerobatics.
> >Everyone deserves to be judged fairly and unbiased by people who have
their
> >own perception on how a flight should look and should be flown. Why
have
3
> >or 5 judges?
> >
> >If you looked at this incident from another angle some of my
competitors
> >may
> >say that I was being coached by a judge which could raise another set
of
> >problems.
> >
> >All in all, the fact he said anything was wrong.
> >
> >Just my thoughts
> >
> >Peter
> >
> >
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