Pattern Fun / scribe/Judging

Del Rykert drykert at rochester.rr.com
Mon Sep 23 19:42:47 AKDT 2002 

And maybe those of that can't should be left our of the judges chair in
fairness to the pilots.
         Del

----- Original Message -----
From: "ronlock" <ronlock at comcast.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe/Judging


> The situation the CD was in, and then pulled you into is a
> difficult one.   Unfortunately, it's a real world situation at times.
> Sounds like you did a good job with the tools at your disposal.
> How to do better - I don't have a magic answer to that.
> Flying the schedules is not necessary to improve your
> judging of them.   Flying and Judging are related skills, but
> neitheris a prerequisite to doing the other well.
> Spending time at practice judging, or at calling those classes
> will help, if you can find the time and opportunity to do it.
>
> Ron Lockhart
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Brox" <tbrox at cox.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
>
>
> > I have been asked to judged both Masters and FAI, and because there was
> not
> > enough flyers in those classes, I agreed to do the best I can. I was
able
> to
> > relate to the CD as to the problems he was having coming up with judges
to
> > cover these classes without using the same 2 or 3 people every round. I
> did
> > my best to judge each maneuver watching for mistakes in each element
such
> > as over or under rotation on rolls, different loop radii, changes in
> heading
> > etc. This way I was able to come to some sort of reasonable score for
each
> > maneuver, even though I was not sure of how the exact maneuver was
flown.
> > That was the best I could do under the circumstances. Any suggestion to
be
> > better without flying the shedule? I am an advanced flyer right now.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Glaze" <billglaze at triad.rr.com>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 2:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> >
> >
> > > To add to what Ron says:
> > > I feel that, in some cases, a judges request to have maneuvers called
> > > loudly enough for him to hear, is indicating a lack of knowledge of
the
> > > sequence by the judge.
> > > This may or not be true, but it seems to me that when I have stepped
to
> > > the line and been asked to have my caller call loudly enough for the
> > > judges to hear, that I felt a little unsure about the judges
> > > capability.  Probably unfair on my part, but that is the impression I
> > > get.
> > > Still, having said that, it is still preferable to call the maneuvers
> > > for the judge, rather than have him/her get "lost" in the sequence.
> > > And, for most of us, a refusal is unthinkable.  Do you want to get the
> > > judge mad at you before the takeoff?<G>
> > >
> > > Best situation I have ever seen: A separate "caller" sitting in back
of
> > > the judges, quietly calling the next maneuver to *them* only.  Worked
> > > great.
> > > It did, of course, require an extra person.  Probably would never be
> > > required for all classes, either.  Just (probably) Masters and FAI.
> > > Not trying to start something here; just an idea.
> > >
> > > ronlock wrote:
> > >
> > > > Most of us have likely been in situations where judges
> > > > ask to have maneuvers called loud enough for judges
> > > > to here.   I cerrtainly do it when asked, but it's not
> > > > a solution I prefer- it is a considerable distraction
> > > > from the job of calling for the pilot- which can be
> > > > a lot more than simple calling the maneuvers with
> > > > the timing that a judge needs.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Lockhart
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Brian Young" <b4598070 at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:48 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > > >
> > > > > Hah....I replaced my 1/2 square loop w/ 1/2 roll up,
> > > > > with an immelman. One judge noticed but wasnt sure so
> > > > > scored it anyway. If I cant remember my schedule
> > > > > theres no way I will remember everyone elses. Wasnt
> > > > > there a rule once where the pilots caller had to call
> > > > > maneuvers loud enough for the judges to hear?
> > > > >
> > > > > But then there was the time I was judging and an FAI
> > > > > pilot came out and didnt use a caller.....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- ROBERT PASTORELLO <faipatrn at msn.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Most folks, being honest, would have to admit they
> > > > > > DO NOT know all the classes...which raises the
> > > > > > question of "what if the pilot's caller doesn't call
> > > > > > loudly enough for you to hear?", or better yet,
> > > > > > "what if the CALLER calls the INCORRECT maneuver?"
> > > > > > [Nah, NEVER would happen]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then, where's the judge at...an ugly place....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I saw a pilot do a 3/4 roll on a humpty that should
> > > > > > have been 1/4....zeroed him...the OTHER judge
> > > > > > "didn't see that", so he scored it a 7 or
> > > > > > something...and since we weren't conferring, guess
> > > > > > what?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SEVERAL people were REALLY interested in why there
> > > > > > was a difference...except the pilot....hmm...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Del Rykert
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:19 PM
> > > > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org; vanputte at nuc.net
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do you memorize all the different classes of
> > > > > > maneuvers? I can't memorize
> > > > > > my own let alone all the others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Del K. Rykert
> > > > > >      AMA - 8928
> > > > > >      NSRCA - 473
> > > > > >      Kb2joi - General
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at nuc.net>
> > > > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 6:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't use a scribe and I never look down.  I use
> > > > > > a legal size
> > > > > > > clipboard and a long legal pad to record the
> > > > > > scores.  Then I transfer
> > > > > > > the scores during the landing approach.  You can't
> > > > > > do that?  Pity.  I've
> > > > > > > been doing it for years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ron Van Putte
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > George Kennie wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Right On!, James!
> > > > > > > > That's exactly why I wont sit in the chair
> > > > > > without a scribe!
> > > > > > > > G
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Woodward James R Civ 412 TW/DRP wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>You may have your own opinion on scribes or no
> > > > > > scribes.  BUT, do this at
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >>next contest.  Fly your round, then sit back and
> > > > > > watch another flyer in
> > > > > > YOUR
> > > > > > > >>class.  Whatch his flight real close, and I'm
> > > > > > sure you'll pick out some
> > > > > > > >>errors, then, quickly look at the judges and
> > > > > > notice which of the judges
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > >>not see the error, because their head was
> > > > > > obviously down, and looking at
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >>paper.  Then, realize that if you judge and look
> > > > > > down to write scores,
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >>you probably miss something from that flight as
> > > > > > well.  At the last
> > > > > > contest,
> > > > > > > >>I watched 1 judge who consistently missed the
> > > > > > first two points of the
> > > > > > > >>inverted 4-pt roll, because they were looking
> > > > > > down at writing the score
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > >>the full-roll 1/2 outside loop.  How the heck
> > > > > > can you judge the 4-pt
> > > > > > > >>accurately, if you miss the entry (wings level?
> > > > > > heading?
> > > > > > > >>decending/climbing?), first roll rate, etc? Not
> > > > > > to mention all other
> > > > > > > >>manuevers.  No judge should be looking down
> > > > > > during any flight, from
> > > > > > > >>sportsman to FAI.  Tough issue....
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Jim W.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > >>From: John Ferrell
> > > > > > [mailto:johnferrell at earthlink.net]
> > > > > > > >>Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:52 AM
> > > > > > > >>To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > > > > >>Subject: Re: Pattern Fun
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> (Can't see how you can judge FAI or Masters
> > > > > > without a scribe.)
> > > > > > > >>You don't have to keep the clipboard in your
> > > > > > lap!
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>John Ferrell
> > > > > > > >>6241 Phillippi Rd
> > > > > > > >>Julian NC 27283
> > > > > > > >>Phone: (336)685-9606
> > > > > > > >>Dixie Competition Products
> > > > > > > >>NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
> > > > > > > >>"My Competition is Not My Enemy"
> > > > > > > >>
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> > > > > =====
> > > > > Brian Young
> > > > > Tulsa
> > > > > b4598070 at yahoo.com
> > > > > 918-745-6046h
> > > > > 918-838-0900w
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
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