Outside the 9 dots - again

[Troy Newman]

Big problem is the number of Qualified judges.....You know the with only one
judge doing a score on a specific maneuver it becomes more of a issue of
bias.....That's one thing I don't really like about the NATS we only had 3
judges per line and no dropped scores...no TBL....no nothing except straight
scores...I some cases There were radically different totals with the
judges.....I have heard banter that a separation of about 10% would be good
to have.....In masters and FAI that's about 50 points a good solid
flight....This would be a dream considering some of the discrepancies I saw
on some masters flyers tear sheets....The FAI scores were very good I think
my worst difference was like 30pts this is really good considering I was
scoring 530-560's average per judge...


At the Worlds correct me if I'm wrong they had the heavy weight judges (more
of them) doing center maneuvers...and less doing the turnarounds.....but in
all cases there were like 3+ judges doing each section right?


In this situation it works.......but I think locally its very
tough.....especially when we are struggling to get 2 good judges in the
chair....I don't like to use the same guys over and over again.......I can
say with certainty that this season I have not had the regular judge duty as
in the past. I have been to contests with more local club judges...(? they
are not as up on the maneuvers but put in a good solid days work and are
learning)...And also Since not too many FAI flyers I'm not in that you two
FAI guys judge all day long all weekend long.


It has been pretty nice....I have only judged a few rounds of
Sportsman---Advanced and Masters....And most of the Masters was that massive
day at the NATS.


In theory I think it will work very well...but I don't like the exposure to
just one judge per maneuver.....leaning to heavy on the quality of the
judge...and right now we still have a need to improve this quality...


Troy


Troy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henderson,Eric" <eric.henderson at gartner.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: Outside the 9 dots - again


> If we copy FAI worlds judge team methodology we could use three judges.
>
> A version of this would be:-
>
> One judge who sits at the left and judges right hand turnarounds. One who
> sits at the right and judges left side turnarounds. And one in the middle
> who only judges center maneuvers.
>
> NO SCRIBES REQUIRED at all!
>
> If you use two judges then do one turnaround judge and one center judge.
You
> could swap the rolls in the next round and have, in essence two new
judges.
>
> The system gives you time to read the next maneuver, judge the maneuver
and
> score it at your leisure. It also allows less confident judges, (to get
> their feet wet, to judge higher level turnaround maneuvers with a more
> experienced judge on the center.
>
> Anyone want to try it out at their next contest. BE BOLD
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Woodward James R Civ 412 TW/DRP
> [mailto:James.Woodward2 at edwards.af.mil]
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 12:08 PM
> To: 'discussion at nsrca.org'
> Subject: RE: Pattern Fun / scribe
>
>
> You may have your own opinion on scribes or no scribes.  BUT, do this at
the
> next contest.  Fly your round, then sit back and watch another flyer in
YOUR
> class.  Whatch his flight real close, and I'm sure you'll pick out some
> errors, then, quickly look at the judges and notice which of the judges
did
> not see the error, because their head was obviously down, and looking at
the
> paper.  Then, realize that if you judge and look down to write scores,
that
> you probably miss something from that flight as well.  At the last
contest,
> I watched 1 judge who consistently missed the first two points of the
> inverted 4-pt roll, because they were looking down at writing the score
from
> the full-roll 1/2 outside loop.  How the heck can you judge the 4-pt
> accurately, if you miss the entry (wings level?  heading?
> decending/climbing?), first roll rate, etc? Not to mention all other
> manuevers.  No judge should be looking down during any flight, from
> sportsman to FAI.  Tough issue....
>
> Jim W.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Ferrell [mailto:johnferrell at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:52 AM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Pattern Fun
>
>
>  (Can't see how you can judge FAI or Masters without a scribe.)
> You don't have to keep the clipboard in your lap!
>
> John Ferrell
> 6241 Phillippi Rd
> Julian NC 27283
> Phone: (336)685-9606
> Dixie Competition Products
> NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
> "My Competition is Not My Enemy"
>
>
>
>
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