K-Factor Pattern an invisible group

Thu Oct 31 13:16:43 AKST 2002

George, - as for the last time a $400 radio won a well attended Master or
FAI event - you got me there - BUT, I did win the Advanced Nationals this
year with a $350 radio FM Fut 9C, and have 1 Masters class victory in norcal
where there was about 10 in the class, post the nats.  Each event flying Ken
Blackwell's "Phase One" design (.... the "chipmonk" looking pattern plane).
Actually, most local type of guys relate well to this design and say things
like, "I had a Chipmonk once that flew great."  They see a balsa type of
pattern plane and actually believe that they could build one (versus a
fiberglass plane).
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: GeorgeF. [mailto:av8tor at flash.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:26 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group

The second highest reason people don't fly pattern is as follows: "Too 
expensive to be "competitive"".   That is not what I'm saying, that was 
what the people who aren't flying pattern are saying so I can only assume 
they know the reason they don't fly.

Regarding the comments about using radios under $400 and planes in the $600 
range.  YES you can fly pattern with the lessor expensive radios and planes 
but you will not be as competitive.  If you don't believe me then look at 
Chip, and all the other top FAI and Masters pilots, I don't see them flying 
$400 radios or $600 planes.  If lessor radios and planes are competitive 
then why are the top pilots using them?????

Now yes you can do will in the lower classes with lessor radios and planes 
however that is NOT what the newcomer sees.   The newcomer to the hobby 
sees $4000+ planes being flown and is "Perception" is that that is what it 
takes to be competitive regardless of class.   Its more a matter of 
perception, after all when was the last time a $400.00 radio won a well 
attended Masters or FAI event????

George
"Please see the entire picture before pattern totally disappears"

At 11:02 AM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>I don't agree with the "sky-high-cost" to be competitive equipment argument
>- in regards to why people don't want to join or fly pattern.  There are an
>assortment of radios under $400 that are entirely capable of pattern needs.
>There are more engine and exhaust choices now than ever.  There are used
>planes or new ARF/ARC planes available in the $600-$800 range (Piedmont
>Models and Zimpro Marketing  - both American companies).  Sky-high-costs
>compared to what?  What other venue of R/C flying can you get into and be
>competitve for less money than a pattern plane?  Jets? Scale? Sailplanes?
>Q-500? IMAC?

>I think there are plenty of people who are willing to practice, compete,
and
>spend hard-earned money to compete and/or be competitive.  The real
question
>is why doesn't pattern get a bigger piece of the new R/C enthusiast pie?
>Precisely what Bob's survey's questions are asking.  Somewhere in this is
>that, "pattern in hard."  Being a competitive flyer within each of our
>ability groups has more to do with your ability and practicing, than
>airplane selection.
>
>I don't know why, but there have been some very recent times when I
practice
>(actually flying) at the club field on the weekend, I can HEAR in the
>background people talking about why they don't fly pattern.  My planes and
>the fact that they see the dedication to practice, really bother some of
the
>local guys in that without asking, they will approach and talk about why
>they don't have one, the time they don't have to PRACTICE, and the cost of
>equipment.  A couple of them are lined up to tell me why they don't fly
>pattern as soon as I land.  I'm a nice guy.  However, I didn't approach
each
>person and ask them to come over and complain to me.  They feel quite free
>to express their ill-will or gudge.  I offer some of them to try the plane,
>and they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll.  I don't wait for someone
>to land the Hanger 9 Pizazz .40 that buzzed my head three times, and go
over
>and tell them all the reasons I don't fly like that.  You see, many people
>will approach and openly discuss why they don't participate - more times
>than I'd like.  With these guys, there is NOTHING I can say for which they
>don't already have a prepared answer.  I just listen and hope the
punishment
>is quickly over.  If I offer them to fly the plane, and they don't want to,
>I really can't do anything else to be congenial.
>
>The main "club" reasons are:
>1.  I don't have the time to practice to fly like that
>2.  I like to fly different kind of planes (and not be pinned down to one
>plane)
>3.  I don't have the money for that.
>
>Almost all the time, the list starts with, "I don't have the time to
>practice."  Some of them have nice equipment and expensive engines in their
>other planes, too.  A few times, someone says, "boy, if I had the money I'd
>get one of those in a heart beat."
>
>I do believe that our club is starting to be more receptive to the idea of
>more members flying areiobatics.  There are a couple long standing members
>that fly either pattern, or wish to start an IMAC contest at the club (club
>already supports a pattern contest).  Also, there are about 3 new club
>members (like myself), who fly aerobatics.  Our club is predominately a R/C
>flyer trainnig ground.  Club instruction has been the primary concern for a
>long while.  Just recently, we passed a trial by-law in which "training"
>could only occur from the beginning of each hour to the 1/2 of each hour.
>This was a great event, and now, you can plan on 1/2 hour of each hour as
>time for which "training" will not occur.
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: GeorgeF. [mailto:av8tor at flash.net]
>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:25 AM
>To: discussion at nsrca.org
>Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
>
>
>Got it and thanks.
>
>Being that I was HEAVY into pattern many years ago and then quit the
>results of that survey is not surprising at all.   Local support and
>interest just wasn't there.
>
>After moving to Florida I had thoughts of re-entering the sport and again
>find that there is just no local support or interest not to mention the sky
>high price of todays equipment to be competitive.  While for me money is
>not much of a concern however I feel it is the high cost of being
>competitive which actually leads to the issue of "no local support and
>interest".  As shown by the survey the #2 reason was equipment costs.
>
>After seeing some of the rules that some members what changed in the name
>of "allowing more people to fly pattern" these are simply excuses to get a
>rule change passed.   In the past nearly every rule change (ie: engine size
>& aircraft size) which was meant to increase pattern involvement has
>not.  In fact the long-term effect of those rule changes did nothing but
>increase the cost of being competitive.
>
>George
>NSRCA member since 1990
>
>At 12:07 PM 10/31/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >George
> >
> >rcuniverse.com     go to 3D aerobatics and Pattern then search for
surveys
> >
> >or go to one of Bob's previous post's and click on the URL
> >
> > >From: "GeorgeF."
> > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:17:48 -0500
> > >
> > >Where is this survey found? URL?
> > >George
> > >
> > >
> > >At 08:41 AM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> > >> - yah, it tells me that the survey is not gear towards pattern
> > >>flyers or those interested in pattern. The "jist" of it appears to
> > >>be towards those who have not competed, or did and quit, and why.
> > >>
> > >>Jim
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: Buddy Brammer [mailto:buddybrammer35 at hotmail.com]
> > >>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:41 AM
> > >>To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >>Subject: Re: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > >>
> > >>For those intrested Bob's survey at RCU has already had more
> > >>responses than the rules change survey and it has only been running
> > >>a few days! Does that tell you something?
> > >>
> > >>Buddy
> > >>
> > >> >From: "Buddy Brammer"
> > >> >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >> >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >> >Subject: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > >> >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:27:23 -0600
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>----------
> > >>Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> > >>Click Here
>
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