K-Factor Pattern an invisible group

[glenn hatfield]

The perception is the problem. That a big reason why I have GP Venus40 
with a Saito 72 in my truck. I fly it and let other try 'pattern' with 
it. It is a $169 ARF. It can be flown with the OS46 and standard servos 
they aready own.  I picked the Saito as most club members in my area 
know of the company and many have one of there products.

Randy Hatfield

----- Original Message -----
From: rcaerobob at cox.net
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group

> Jim (and others) - WE (folks INSIDE the game) can talk ALL DAY 
> about how inexpensive it is to get started.  He*%, we probably 
> have different views on that....that's not the point of the 
> information.   The information is reflecting a PERCEPTION.  I've 
> said many times (and very few seem to agree, that's okay) that the 
> PERCEPTION of those OUTSIDE the Pattern game determines what they 
> "believe" about the game.  Period.
>   The data so far would reflect that as a group, we have some 
> PERCEPTIONS to deal with, whether we agree with them or not.  
> "Expense to compete" is just one of several to choose from.
>  It's very interesting data.
> > 
> > From: Woodward James R Civ 416 FLTS/TPS 
> <James.Woodward2 at edwards.af.mil>> Date: 2002/10/31 Thu PM 02:02:30 EST
> > To: "'discussion at nsrca.org'" <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > 
> > Howdy,
> > 
> > I don't agree with the "sky-high-cost" to be competitive 
> equipment argument
> > - in regards to why people don't want to join or fly pattern.  
> There are an
> > assortment of radios under $400 that are entirely capable of 
> pattern needs.
> > There are more engine and exhaust choices now than ever.  There 
> are used
> > planes or new ARF/ARC planes available in the $600-$800 range 
> (Piedmont> Models and Zimpro Marketing  - both American 
> companies).  Sky-high-costs
> > compared to what?  What other venue of R/C flying can you get 
> into and be
> > competitve for less money than a pattern plane?  Jets? Scale? 
> Sailplanes?> Q-500? IMAC?  
> > 
> > I think there are plenty of people who are willing to practice, 
> compete, and
> > spend hard-earned money to compete and/or be competitive.  The 
> real question
> > is why doesn't pattern get a bigger piece of the new R/C 
> enthusiast pie?
> > Precisely what Bob's survey's questions are asking.  Somewhere 
> in this is
> > that, "pattern in hard."  Being a competitive flyer within each 
> of our
> > ability groups has more to do with your ability and practicing, than
> > airplane selection.  
> > 
> > I don't know why, but there have been some very recent times 
> when I practice
> > (actually flying) at the club field on the weekend, I can HEAR 
> in the
> > background people talking about why they don't fly pattern.  My 
> planes and
> > the fact that they see the dedication to practice, really bother 
> some of the
> > local guys in that without asking, they will approach and talk 
> about why
> > they don't have one, the time they don't have to PRACTICE, and 
> the cost of
> > equipment.  A couple of them are lined up to tell me why they 
> don't fly
> > pattern as soon as I land.  I'm a nice guy.  However, I didn't 
> approach each
> > person and ask them to come over and complain to me.  They feel 
> quite free
> > to express their ill-will or gudge.  I offer some of them to try 
> the plane,
> > and they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll.  I don't wait 
> for someone
> > to land the Hanger 9 Pizazz .40 that buzzed my head three times, 
> and go over
> > and tell them all the reasons I don't fly like that.  You see, 
> many people
> > will approach and openly discuss why they don't participate - 
> more times
> > than I'd like.  With these guys, there is NOTHING I can say for 
> which they
> > don't already have a prepared answer.  I just listen and hope 
> the punishment
> > is quickly over.  If I offer them to fly the plane, and they 
> don't want to,
> > I really can't do anything else to be congenial.  
> > 
> > The main "club" reasons are:
> > 1.  I don't have the time to practice to fly like that
> > 2.  I like to fly different kind of planes (and not be pinned 
> down to one
> > plane)
> > 3.  I don't have the money for that.  
> > 
> > Almost all the time, the list starts with, "I don't have the 
> time to
> > practice."  Some of them have nice equipment and expensive 
> engines in their
> > other planes, too.  A few times, someone says, "boy, if I had 
> the money I'd
> > get one of those in a heart beat."  
> > 
> > I do believe that our club is starting to be more receptive to 
> the idea of
> > more members flying areiobatics.  There are a couple long 
> standing members
> > that fly either pattern, or wish to start an IMAC contest at the 
> club (club
> > already supports a pattern contest).  Also, there are about 3 
> new club
> > members (like myself), who fly aerobatics.  Our club is 
> predominately a R/C
> > flyer trainnig ground.  Club instruction has been the primary 
> concern for a
> > long while.  Just recently, we passed a trial by-law in which 
> "training"> could only occur from the beginning of each hour to 
> the 1/2 of each hour.
> > This was a great event, and now, you can plan on 1/2 hour of 
> each hour as
> > time for which "training" will not occur.  
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GeorgeF. [mailto:av8tor at flash.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:25 AM
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > 
> > 
> > Got it and thanks.
> > 
> > Being that I was HEAVY into pattern many years ago and then quit 
> the 
> > results of that survey is not surprising at all.   Local support 
> and 
> > interest just wasn't there.
> > 
> > After moving to Florida I had thoughts of re-entering the sport 
> and again 
> > find that there is just no local support or interest not to 
> mention the sky 
> > high price of todays equipment to be competitive.  While for me 
> money is 
> > not much of a concern however I feel it is the high cost of 
> being 
> > competitive which actually leads to the issue of "no local 
> support and 
> > interest".  As shown by the survey the #2 reason was equipment 
> costs.> 
> > After seeing some of the rules that some members what changed in 
> the name 
> > of "allowing more people to fly pattern" these are simply 
> excuses to get a 
> > rule change passed.   In the past nearly every rule change (ie: 
> engine size 
> > & aircraft size) which was meant to increase pattern involvement 
> has 
> > not.  In fact the long-term effect of those rule changes did 
> nothing but 
> > increase the cost of being competitive.
> > 
> > George
> > NSRCA member since 1990
> > 
> > At 12:07 PM 10/31/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> > 
> > >George
> > >
> > >rcuniverse.com     go to 3D aerobatics and Pattern then search 
> for surveys
> > >
> > >or go to one of Bob's previous post's and click on the URL
> > >
> > > >From: "GeorgeF."
> > > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:17:48 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Where is this survey found? URL?
> > > >George
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >At 08:41 AM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >> - yah, it tells me that the survey is not gear towards pattern
> > > >>flyers or those interested in pattern. The "jist" of it 
> appears to
> > > >>be towards those who have not competed, or did and quit, and 
> why.> > >>
> > > >>Jim
> > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>From: Buddy Brammer [mailto:buddybrammer35 at hotmail.com]
> > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:41 AM
> > > >>To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >>Subject: Re: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > > >>
> > > >>For those intrested Bob's survey at RCU has already had more
> > > >>responses than the rules change survey and it has only been 
> running> > >>a few days! Does that tell you something?
> > > >>
> > > >>Buddy
> > > >>
> > > >> >From: "Buddy Brammer"
> > > >> >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >> >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >> >Subject: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > > >> >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:27:23 -0600
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>----------
> > > >>Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> > > >>Click Here
> > 
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