Two/Four Stokes

Tue Nov 12 16:40:12 AKST 2002

Quality - sure. But those YS "Dingos" seem to flame out a lot.
Last Sunday a friend was testing his new Synergy with a new Dingo.
4 flights - 4 flame outs.
My Webra 145: 4 flights - 0 flame outs
Anyway Ron has been waiting for a long time for a 2-stroke revival. So let
him revel a bit!

A memorable  quote from Ron in the KF, if my memory serves, went something
like "4-strokes are just a momentary aberration, caused by a misguided rule
change". . .  ?? :-)
We will just have to wait to see the listings after the 2003? F3A World
Champs in Poland? Somehow I don´nt think much will change at that level.
Until then I know which I prefer. The Webra 145.
I have sold my YS´s and the Moki 2.10s (I had for IMAC)
As for a weight limit - well its just not relevant. A Pattern Plane needs to
be under 10 pounds, at least at this altitude.

Rodney
NSRCA #2906

on 12/11/02 6:23 PM, Terry Terrenoire at amad2terry at juno.com wrote:

> What a pitty! Guess some people don't appreciate quality!
> 
> Terry T.
> 
> On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:19:26 -0500 ronlock <ronlock at comcast.net> writes:
>> I recently shared a day at a sport field with Joe and a number of
>> other pattern guys - There were seven pattern pilots, seven pattern
>> birds, and not a 4 stroke in sight !
>> 
>> Ron Lockhart
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Lachowski" <jlachow at hotmail.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: Weight Limit/cost
>> 
>> 
>>> Come on Terry, when are you gonna come over to the dark side and
>> fly a two
>>> stroke?<vbg>
>> 
>>>> From: Terry Terrenoire <amad2terry at juno.com>
>>>> Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Weight Limit/cost
>>>> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:08:55 -0500
>>>> 
>>>> Just to confirm this:
>>>> I am currently building a Synergy
>>>> Kit cost $875
>>>> Engine $500, YS 1.40 L
>>>> Header $40
>>>> 4 digital servos $360
>>>> Paint and Monokote $100?
>>>> Ball bearing controls $40
>>>> Pilot $10
>>>> Wheels $30
>>>> Add another misc $100 and you have a total of $2055
>>>> 
>>>> And this is with top equipment. Have not purchased a pipe yet and
>> the
>>>> throttle servo is a 132 from my inventory.
>>>> Eliminate the ballbearing hardware, and digital servos and you're
>> back
>>>> under $2000.
>>>> 
>>>> Terry T.
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:35:00 -0600 "Keith Black"
>> <tkeithb at attbi.com>
>>>> writes:
>>>>>> BTW you mentioned being competitive with a $1500 plane.  If
>> true
>>>>> why are
>>>>>> the "top boys" flying planes were the radio/receiver/servos
>> along
>>>>> cost
>>>>> $1500?
>>>>> 
>>>>> What I said was one could be competitive by spending $1500 to
>> $2000
>>>>> and I
>>>>> feel that this is the case. That's not to say that the "big
>> boys",
>>>>> or even
>>>>> the well financed guy at the local club, won't spend more.
>> Obviously
>>>>> that
>>>>> dollar figure doesn't assume you get a ready built plane from
>>>>> someone like
>>>>> PLProd. BTW, I wasn't including the transmitter in that figure
>> as
>>>>> most
>>>>> people in the hobby have a TX they fly multiple planes with
>> (even
>>>>> the sport
>>>>> guys). You can get a name brand JR or Futaba radio with lots
>> extras
>>>>> like
>>>>> multi-model support, dual rates, exponential, programmable
>> mixes,
>>>>> etc. for
>>>>> $250.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As to the $1500 to $2000 figure consider the following: Top
>> notch
>>>>> JR
>>>>> digitals on all flight surfaces for around $400 to $500, Webra
>> 1.45
>>>>> or OS
>>>>> 1.40RX - $395.00 to $450, Hitec receiver for $60, competitive
>>>>> cutting edge
>>>>> kit or ARC for $425 to $700 (in my case I'm building an Aries
>> from
>>>>> AeroSlave, but you can also go with others or even get an ARC
>> Focus
>>>>> for
>>>>> $595). Add another $300 or so for building supplies, landing
>> gear,
>>>>> spinner,
>>>>> linkages, etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That comes to right around $2000 on the high end and $1500 on
>> the
>>>>> low end,
>>>>> and the result in either case would be a very competitive
>> plane.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The point of my message was that I can be on a competitive
>> playing
>>>>> field in
>>>>> Pattern in this dollar range, but in IMAC the price tag is
>> more like
>>>>> $7000
>>>>> and continually growing as pilots go from 33%, to 40%, to 50%
>>>>> planes. It
>>>>> would be very discouraging to me to have to compete against
>> someone
>>>>> that
>>>>> drops this much money on am IMAC plane, but if someone drops
>> $3000
>>>>> or $4000
>>>>> on a pattern plane I know it's probably just because they
>> didn't
>>>>> want to
>>>>> build :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Keith Black
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "GeorgeF." <av8tor at flash.net>
>>>>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:06 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Weight Limit
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In IMAC they're continually building them bigger and
>> bigger,
>>>>> and one
>>>>> has
>>>>>>> to follow suite to be competitive.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This "bigger and bigger" as resulted in many flying fields
>> being
>>>>>> lost.  Both because of "big" planes being flown wrecklessly
>> and
>>>>> because of
>>>>>> noise.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I know that changes often have unintended consequences.
>> The
>>>>> question is
>>>>>>> will lifting the weight limitation cause an explosion in
>> price or
>>>>> simply
>>>>>>> provide more economical and technically appealing options
>> as
>>>>> others have
>>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For an answer to this lets take a look at what happened with
>> the
>>>>> engine
>>>>>> size rule was lifted.  What happened to cost?  What happened
>> to
>>>>> average
>>>>>> aircraft size?  Both went up.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> BTW you mentioned being competitive with a $1500 plane.  If
>> true
>>>>> why are
>>>>>> the "top boys" flying planes were the radio/receiver/servos
>> along
>>>>> cost
>>>>> $1500?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> George
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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